No wonder why your reply sounded exactly like what I was going to write.Thanks for writing it for me Yea Randy is incredible
I followed his instructions to a T and I was amazed at the results...I have never had a mig weld crack after doing it this way...I use .030 wire also
I use flux core, been doing it for years. Sounds crazy but I get good results after ALOT of practice and warping and trashing alot of panels. I first get the the panels clean near the weld, start at one end making tacks about 3 to 4inch away, make sure the panels line up perfect not too high and not too low or you will never get a invisible weld seam. just start making tacks hamering them individualy when they are red as I go, also have a squirt bottle and a rag and cool each weld, take your time and take a couple breaks so you dont build up too much heat. You will have to hammer and dolly the panel every now and then when it starts to run away from you. Each panel is diffrent, large flat panels like the middle of a door panel or the roof will want to warp allot faster than a seam right next to a bead. a good way to learn is what I did is bought a 1964 volkswagen bug in high school and chopped the top more just for practice. Every body has their own way but this is how I do it. Here is a pic of a T door I did mainly for practice, takes alot of practice to weld thin 90 year old sheet metal with flux core. I am always learning.
I use all three methods, depending on the situation. Mostly MIG, as I do work for people who don't want perfection, nor can they afford to pay for tedious gaswelding. Gas if I need to "massage" some shape into panels, and only if I have room on the inside for a dolly! Do it a lot on chops, where the panels don't have exactly the right countors to meet correctly. Tig if I am going for a nice clean weld, have the extra time (like on my own car) and can hammer and dolly it. No gap, tack it every inch or closer, then weld about 1/2" and hammer on dolly the weld. Try to stay in control that way.
MIG and TIG. In addition to all of the aforementioned tips, whatever method, take your time with every step. Patience is one of the most important tools. If things are not working out right, put down the tools and walk away. Success can wait until tomorrow.
Great thread! Lots of info here. Do you guys get a sunken area in the haz where 2 different welds join up? Like where you had extended a tack to left and right then skipped. On the next pass you came back to the shipped spot and weld to it from another tack? Right where these two welds join, at the edge of the 'blue' heat. They are easy to fix, but if i can avoid them mores the better. If you don't get what i'm talking about i can put up a picture.
I found the Randy Ferguson thread you are referring to. http://fergusoncoachbuilding.blogspot.com/ Just thought it might help someone else. I always read your threads as I learn something everytime and this thread is no exception.
First tip would be learn to weld on something OTHER than your build project! Once you feel comfortable start on the old stuff. I used to TIG aluminum body panels years ago, but the machine wasn't setup to TIG steel, something I'd dearly love to get to do some day. I've been told if you can TIG aluminum you can do steel as well. I gas weld at home. Just this week I got to MIG for the very first time on sheetmetal, and it didn't change my opinion of it. MIG is shit on sheetmetal, was it really invented by the grinding disk manufacturers? The coachbuilders of the 1930's gas welded and IMO that is the second best method other than TIG.
I butt weld usually, because it takes less filler...I tack/burp a spot...move over to a cool spot, and repeat until it's all filled in...never had to "hammer weld" it...when all filled up I use the "flap discs" and bring it smooth...moving fast with the rinder. I usually have to use a little filler to cover the seams...but it's minimal and doesn't take very long. Ofcourse I use an old, obsolete welder (MM35) with .030 in it, so your results may vary!
TAKE YOUR TIME!!! The best advice anyone has ever givin me on metal working was to take my time. With practice you will get faster, just dont get in a hurry while learning. Every one who has talked about panel fit is right on, no gaps! I think I spend as much time on panel fit of not more time than I do welding. Tig all the way for me but, You can do awesome metal work with any welder as long as you take your time..
I first off would like to thank all of you that have contributed to this thread. I asked for a picture tutorial, so I figured I should put one up. I am not the best tig welder and I almost thought about mig welding this panel. I feel more comfortable mig welding but I will never be comfortable tig welding unless I practice. So I tig welded this, don't laugh I put a little shape into a panel then split it in half so I could weld it back together. I also cleaned where I was going to weld and then chamfered the edges. I clamped it together,then on the back side of the panel I placed a piece of brass.I usually use copper but I misplaced my piece of copper. Then I tacked it every inch Then I took the clamps off and stretched each tack. Then I clamped the brass back underneath,I put the brass or copper underneath to trap the inert gas to insure a clean weld on the back side as well.Not to absorb the heat.I don't care about the heat because I am going to re-stretch it anyway. Well I guess I did not take a picture of filling in every inch. It must have been the beer or I was too embarrassed to show. After filling in one section of weld I re-stretched the haz and then move on to the next inch. When the welding was finished I took a cut-off wheel and took the weld down to where it was just above the panel.Then filed it down and then used a DA on it. It's not totally invisible but there is no distortion. If I get better at tig welding I will be able to make the weld disappear. I am still really unsteady and inconsistent.
If you can TIG weld already, then you'll take to gas welding in nothing flat. Once you figure out that the heat is controlled by how close the torch is, instead of how far you roll on the peddle, the rest is cake. I went the other way, learned to gas weld first, then learned TIG, and I found the transition quite easy. Took about a week to break the habit of pulling the torch out when the puddle started getting away from me, but once I got that, the rest was already there. With the speed that you picked up metal shaping, you'll be laying down TIG and Oxy weld beads to rival Bass in no time flat. EDIT: Should have read the entire thread before I made a post. See what I mean about picking TIG up quickly? Jesus you learn fast. That, or you were just born to work metal. Either way, I think you've found your calling man. In ten years time, we're gonna be seeing shit you've built on TV, guaranteed. Just remember us little people when you hit it big.
Wait, what? Laugh? Oh yeah, I'm laughing alright. Not at you but at me. You appear to be a better welder than me, and I do it for a living. Nice work! You sure you aren't just fishing for compliments?
I use almost the exact same technique as Metalman does, I use a small 3" Merit 36 grit disc to take the weld off, then pick and file, hammer and dolly a little where needed, and 80 grit DA to finish. I use Er70s2 Tig wire, and have been able to work these welds around where needed, hot or cold. I don`t own a Mig welder, and never will. How about Gas Welding Aluminym? Johnny?Tinbender?....
This is how I do it as well. Why, this is the way I learned. I also have a TIG, but don't use it as much as thought that I would. Sometimes I'll use my MIG on projects that I don't stick weld.
While you are trying to straighten the part, you pick up the low spots and file to finish. You have to be careful, that you don't file too much or you will thin the metal too much. It's better to use sandpaper and a block to see your high and low spots. Depending on the part and/or damage it can be a long and tedious process.
I am still really far away from being where I want to be with tig welding.I didn't show the fill in between each inch because they looked like crap. I can stick two pieces together but it is not pretty.I don't think I hold my hand correctly on the gun. I also think my hand that is holding the filler rod is way to close to the gun and it is blocking my view of the seem. The only reason I can get good results are because of the method I use.That and knowing how to grind and finish my welds. Am I fishing for complements,your damn right I am. Probably not in the way you are thinking though, If you really want to give me a complement,take an hour this weekend and do a small picture tutorial. Who cares if it does not come out right put it up anyways and we will talk about it.
It is just a easy way to knock down the proud of the weld and it does not add to much heat. It took some practice,at first I kept slipping and scratching the panel.There is no way to get rid of the scratches with out taking away to much metal.
It is defiantly cooler then a grinding wheel. Before I re-stretch it I leave the weld just above the panel.the weld will smash down a little when hammering. On the cut off wheels,truthfully I just use what ever is on the die grinder at the time.I have used both and do not have a preference.Some people do.
Next time you weld try a cut off wheel on a small piece of the weld and then do a a small piece with a flap disk stone or what ever else you might use and feel the difference.
thanks for starting this thread as it has been like being in school for me....alot of new ideas to try and use
You can even get 3 in. grinding discs for a cut-off tool. About 3/16-1/4 in thick. Less chance of one exploding when you are grinding a weld. 3M makes them.
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