T5 Behind a SBC? - Hot Rod Emergency

I know, I know....do a search, read the "ultimate T5 tech article". Well, I have, numerous times.

Here's what I've got. A 283 that previously had a saginaw 3 speed behind it. Standard Chevy bellhousing and flywheel.

A T5 from an S-10

Clutch disc from an Astro/Safari Van (11")

The problem I'm having is that the splines on the transmission bottom out in the clutch disc a good 3/8" before the input shaft is seated in the pilot bushing.

I know this stuff should work...at least that is what I have come to understand from reading about it for the last however many years. I've got the wrong parts somewhere. Any ideas?

 

I have a 350 with the same disc and trans the only thing i did was cut the input shaft about 3/8" and i took a die grinder and removed a little of the splines from the transmission side of the clutch disc (not over an 1/8").works flawless.

 

Did you try disc on the shaft before installing it? Maybe a burr in the splines or shaft or disc in backwards?

 

I'm being totally serious here and not a smartass. Is the clutch disc in correctly? There is a short and a long side. Ask me how I know.


Tim

 

they already said it, I've put in a clutch disc backwards before too..

 

Do you mean that the splined ring in the center of the clutch hub is running out of splines on the input shaft on the transmission before it is all the way in? If so I have heard of this before. These apparently vary quite a bit in thickness depending on the manufacturer.

It is mentioned here on an AD truck site:

http://www.chevytrucks.org/tech/s10t5.htm

and here: http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/t5tranny2.htm

I think I might have seen it here too. You might have to inspect a few brands of disc, or dare the grinder.

I know that I have read it elsewhere. I will keep looking.

 

Nope, wasn't in backwards. In fact one side was stamped "flywheel". It's a Zoom brand disc.

Gimpy, that actually helps a lot. The second link you posted describes the problem I am running into almost exactly.

The splines on the input shaft of the transmission aren't deep enough, so the clutch plate can't slide back enough on the shaft.

I might try to get "creative" with the clutch disc tomorrow....

 

There have been some posts on the net about that and I believe that Wingedexpress has one solution to the problem. the other might be a spacer between the bell housing and the trans. If you still have the old three speed put the transmissions side by side or nose to nose and see what the differences are and then decide on the course of action.

It would be a pain in the ass to pull the input shaft in the t-5 and chuck it in a lathe and modify it but I think that is what some guys are doing.

Here, this might get the creative brain waves going http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/tranny/sandoval/index.html
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You'd actually have to pull the shaft and have the splines extended further. I was hoping to have this all back together by tomorrow night for Pistons and Paint...got the flu or something last weekend which really put me behind.

I'm just kinda bummed cause I thought this was a direct bolt-on kinda swap but am finding that it's not at all. (are they ever??)

 

If you read everything on a search, you will find that I never recommend an S10 T5 behind a SBC. Apart from a strength issue, there is an input shaft issue. Something I wasn't aware of when I worked on the original tech piece, but has since come up several times.

If you're putting a T5 behind a SBC, you really should start with a Camaro/Firebird V8 trans.

The S10 input is longer, the bearing retainer is longer, and consequently, the splines sometimes aren't long enough. You may need to trim the pilot, trim the bearing retainer, and deepen the splines. You may be able to trim the clutch or get a disk that is better suited.

 

Sorry for the hijack.....

Hey Ernie will the Camaro/firebird bolt right up? If so how hard is it to move the shifter fwd...??

 

the camaro t5 bolts right up... input shaft is correct length... to move the shifter you have to swap the tail shaft housing w/ the s10 version... i'm picking up a camaro t5 tomorrow for my apache... i'm hoping i can get creative w/ a bend in the shifter, but i'm pretty sure i'll need the s10 tail

 

I had forgot about the bearing retainer it has to be cut as well ,but just measure the old trans and have at it. You need too bevel and smooth the input shaft on the end or it will be a pain to start in the pilot bearing.

 

get the die drinder out and extend the grooves. use a sharpie and straight edge then follow the lines. cutting back the hub will help. good luck as being sick is gonna make the job suck just that much more.

 

I had the same problem, I ended up putting a aluminum spacer between the bell and tranny and made a longer pilot bushing , worked out well, Good luck.

 

the camaro is a bolt and go, i have one sitting in the floor ready to go if u need to borrow to get to pnp

 

Thanks for the offer Rusty.

I think I'm callin it quits though. I've just got the wrong stuff...I'll figure it out later.

 

I have an S-10 T5 behind my sbc. I shortened the input shaft and the bearing retainer, but otherwise no problem. I used a 10" disc from a HO V6 Cavalier, maybe that's the difference. Maybe the spline section is shorter??
I know the S-10 trans is a little tender, so didn't think the smaller disc would be an issue...not planning to "drop the clutch" at 6000rpm !!

 

Gary aka Hot-Rod Roadster, ran an S-10 trans behind a SBC in his semi famous 29 highboy for many miles and beat the shit out of it. pm him for help.

 

I had the same issue with an 11" Astro disc. I might have taken about 1/8 inch off the hub. Or whatever it takes to get it to work. It's simple, it works, it dosen't hurt anything.

 

I have an advanced adapters Small block chevy to S10 T5 Bell housing. Its designed for guy's who want to put V8's into S10's. I bought it cheap on the auction site as I didn't know what direction I was going in with the A. Anyone who needs it can have it for the price I paid for it. I'm going with a Flathead motor now so just have it sitting on the shelf.

Alex

 

Yup, I've already shortened the input shaft and retainer as well. I'll see if I can find that disc.

I would have made a spacer for the trans, but now the input shaft is now too short for that to work. Plus, I've already made my trans mount and don't want to re-do it.

I did some searching and found the part number for (and ordered) the input shaft for a NWC Camaro/Astro T5. It measures 8-3/4" (s-10 is supposed to be 9-1/4"). Should be here Monday, I'll report back if that works.

 

i used a 96? ish 4.3 s 10 5 speed(1 piece bell housing) with the astro van disc it all bolted right up no problem are u using an older 5 speed with removable bell housing?

 

Mind sharing the part number/source so that others reading this will know.

Earl

 

Of course. The number is 1352-085-012

Here's where I found all the part numbers and breakdown...
http://www.mackstrans.com/BorgWarnerT5.html

But when I called, they said it was listed as "No Longer Available." So I did a search for that number online and found a place in El Paso that listed it. They had two in stock.

http://www.southwestgear.com/main.htm

 

When I installed my T-5 from a 92 Camaro in my 55 chevy I made a new cross-member and bent a hurst aluminum shifter so it sat straight. This works very well if your using a console.

 

I would not worry about the strength of the S10 T-5 behind a civilized V8.

I have seen an example of just about everything broken in my time. I work with a lot of 4x4 stuff and I have seen everything from broken kingpin Dana 60's to snapped 40 spline cro-mo axle shafts. I have seen everything similar on the street.

All of these failures had the same common ingredient: clown behind the wheel.

Anything can be broken. Know the limitations of your equipment, and operate it within those limitations and you will be just fine.

 

I'm not worried about breaking it. I've got a stock 283 in a very lightweight hot rod with tall skinny bias ply tires. Besides, I think the banjo rear axle will pop before the transmission does. I considered it's strength before I went with a non-world class transmission, I think it'll be ok.

 

where is the shifter positioned (fore/aft)in relation to the front edge of the seat? i'm not concerned with the slight rotation, only the floor position.

 

I run buckets and a console.You will need the S-10 tail shaft if you have the stock bench seat. Here is a pic: