WTF?! V/C gasket replacement goes horribly wrong... Any ideas?

I'll get some pics up as soon as I find the cable to my camera, but in the meantime, here's a head scratcher for you.

I had a leaky valcve cover gasket on my 1978 Ford 351M motor. Yeah, it runs like junk, but if I can limp it through another winter I'll be okay. I get the gasket and remove the bolts and cover and suddenly I'm flabberasted.

There is NO push rod or lifter on the number 2 cylinder. None. Gone. The rocker's just flopping around and it makes a little more sense when Steve said "It sounds like one of your valves is stuck" when we were trying to diagnose the various problems the other night.

You guys ever heard of this? Steve thinks it's gone and dropped down in the motor (I don't see how this is possible). An old timer I talked to at the store a few minutes ago thought that a cam lobe broke off and someone got tired of hearing it rattling to hell and just took the rod and lifter out. I'm wondering if the last hicks to put this motor together had one too many when they were assembling everything and just forgot about it and wondered why it perpetually ran like shit before they sold the whole works cheap to a desperate homeowner in need of a plowtruck: me.

Any ideas? I don't know if I can really tell if the cam lobe is shot without tearing the whole engine apart and I don't know if I could just install a new lifter and push rod and call it good (I'd probably have to buy a whole set anyway).

So, I just turned off the light, closed the door and had to get on the computer to share this with you guys.

 

Wow! That's messed up!

 

Looks like the joke's on you!

 

in order for the lifter to drop down the cam lobe would have to be WORN in fact i think its actually impossible. my guess is that the hicks that put it together forgot to put them in. so drop a new lifter and pushrod in and youre good to go. if youre really curious, then drop the oil pan and the parts or at least metal shavings should be there haha. thats rugged. did the truck always run like crap?

 

Well, if it is running, you probably can't make it worse. Put the cover back on and pull it in the spring.

 

Whoa!! One thing you could do is pull the oil pan and see if it's in there? Or just button it back up and don't worry about it till the spring!!

 

That kinda sounds like this terrible dream I had last night. But I don't see how the whole mess got down the lifter bore without blowing the cam in half... or blowing a hole in the casting...I bet it's laying under an ol' oak tree somewhere.

I'd pull the pan, and look for clues...

Just to get through the winter, I'd probably get a lifter and pushrod from somebody on here to get it up, (I know, Redneck repair) and count on a full rebuild next year...unless you wipe that lobe...

 

HAHAHA!! Yeah, the joke's on me. I don't see HOW it could have dropped past the cam. I can kinda see the surface of the cam through the lifter bore and I just can't fathom how it could have made it past.
I'm sorely tempted to just button it back up and worry about it in the spring, but if I can find a pushrod and lifter for free or next to nothing in the meantime I'm going to put them in just out of curiosity.

Yes, the thing has always run like crap but with chains on all four tires and in 4 it's damn near unstoppable. Of course it never sees high RPMs since I can't drive it legally anywhere but my driveway. It's a hunk of shit. No joke there.

However, I suppose this could be a testament that Ford builds a good 7 cylinder engine. Who knows.

 

Probably not the end of the world... Can you actually look down the pushrod hole and see where the lifter should be but isn't?

If so, what likely happened is the rocker nut backed off, got too much clearance on the pushrod, the push rod fell out of it's little cup in the rocker and the lifter and fell down into the lifter valley.

Sometimes when this happens, the lifter will stay in the bore, but often, it will pop out of the bore and lay in the lifter valley.

If you are REEEEAL good with a magnet, you might be able to fish the lifter back into the hole and fish out the push rod and be OK.

Most likely, you will have to pop the intake and you will see your lifter and pushrod just hanging around not bothering anything. Stick em back where they belong, adjust the rocker properly and you will be fine.

Good luck, -Abone.

 

ABONE - That's an awesome idea! I'm going to go fish around with a magnet for a few minutes right now!

 

The intake is still on right??

Run out there and pop the intake off real quick. Should take just a minute, and I bet you will sleep alot better tonight.

Good luck, -Abone.

 

Can't believe that the lifter went down into the pan, but I would suggest pulling the pan and the intake, you might find parts in the valley. also at that point you could have a better look at the cam lobe

 

If you're gonna put it back together until spring, take the spark plug out and run the wire to ground.

 

i'm not familiar with ford engines , but if the lifter was completely out of the bore wouldn't that drastically effect the oil pressure? i bet the pushrod broke in two pieces and is laying down inside . i had that happen on a 265 chevy

 

Yep, what he said. I'll bet you a dollar your lifter and (broken) pushrod are laying in there. I don't see how it's got enough oil pressure to keep running. You should be losing ALOT of oil pressure out the lifter bore.

Kevin
Ooltewah Speed Shop

 

I know the 351M's have a weird oiling set up, but it's still gotta be bleeding off pressure. I 'm looking at this picture and there is no way the lifter or pushrod could make it past the galley. If it ain't there it ain't in the engine.
From:
http://netbankofcanada.com/Day Spa/400 M Ford/400m.htm
The ones that I had that came apart like that were thrown through the valve cover.

 

sam, listen to this guy,first person to voice my thoughts,a man who knows his shit and dosen't just post with not much of an idea of what caused the problem or an idea of how to actualy fix it.
not trying to hijack but my brother-in law took #1 intake pushrod out of my 215 ci buick just before the ex and i left on honeymoon,drove all the way to canada on 7 cyl. stoped at caines junkyard in elsworth on the way home and fixed it .400 mile round trip ,fixed it 50 miles from home on return trip.couldn'tgo that long without a little grease and oil on my hands.still got the 215,thank goodness the ex is gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

um,,wait til spring its a lifter and push rod ,,I mean,,ok so it runs but my god,,fix it ,,not like its a zillion $$'s in parts ,,I'm sure someone on here has an extra they could give you,,or a dead motor in some junkyard

 

I'll bet someoe took um out to keep the valve from opening and popen back thru the intake. People do strange things.

 

Abone nailed it. 15 seconds with a magnet yielded a very bent push rod... 20 minutes and a mangled magnetic probe did not find the lifter though. SO, I guess I'll be pulling off the intake tomorrow to find the lifter. It really is a wonder the thing runs at all and I'm anxious to see how it runs once the proper parts are back in their place.

Do parts stores sell individual lifters and push rods? Sure, it's not a lot of money for a whole set, but I'm rolling coins as it is and don't want to spend another cent than I have to on this stupid truck. I'd rather be spending it on hot rod parts.

Learn something new every day! Thanks everyone, especially Abone for the sage advice.

 

Gigantor, I'm with Little Wing and the other guys who say if you're just using it as a "plow truck" and won't be bearing down hard (rpm) on it this winter, just WAIT until spring.

For my money, the 351 is a good enigne, and the lifter & pushrodwere LEFT OUT by the last people to "build" it (read that, "doctor"). I don't believe for a minute that the lifter and push rod just "fell" down somewhere. If any HAMBer ever had this happen with a 351, I'll eat my words. But I say, NO way.

I'm betting that IF you put a new lifter and a decent pushrod in there in the spring, it just may run TWICE or THREE times better than it's doing now. As Little Wing said, you got noting to lose.

'courase, if you can get the two parts cheap or free ND have a day of warm weather up your way, it's not HARD to put those in and SEE what the motor does, buddy. Best of luck, of course!

 

Well, I'll be shit. Sure would love to hear if the lifter DID go down, whenever you get that far. Or, maybe, did the previous guys lose the rod and just take the lifter out? Yeah, I hear new things too that I never thought possible in a daily driver situation!

 

Yes they sell them individually. But if you are really cheap you might be able straighten that pushrod. Back on the farm we'd just hammer em straight and check them for straightness by rollin them on the kitchen table. Did 3 of them in one engine after the timing chain let go. Straightened, stuffed em back in there, and ran it another 100,000 miles.

 

Yeah Jim- it's kind of hard to believe that thing even ran half as well as it did. Just when you think you knew most of automotive lore, you turn the page and it's a whole new chapter.

Dzus - I was thinking about trying to straighten that rod, but it's pretty mangled and if I can get a new one for free or cheap I'll be a happy camper.

 

Yes, pushrods and lifters are sold individually all the time. But even if you don't fix it the ole girl's still got one more cylinder than an I-6 and will get ya thru another winter on 7. I once drove a tow truck that had been in service for 3 years with a motor out of the shop owner's sprint car. It came out of the race car because of a hole in the piston! Jeezus that thing ran rough, but still made more power than a stock 350.

 

$2.49 Melling at Autozone.

 

That sounds like my price range right there. Thanks Dzus ... so much for lunch tomorrow

 

The PO probably forgot to put the push rod in on that cylinder?

 

He found the push rod, smoke some more corn flakes....

 

Find the cable for your camera!