Why do Pontiac engines suck ??

I am starting to like Pontiac V-8s,, they seen to have a lot of history in Gassers and Dragsters................

Sad story, we had a neighbor with a Pontiac 2+2 given to him to scrap, owner moved to California, had to go, (FREE) someone got the intake, engine was clean in side not rusty at all, engine was covered up well. car was rusty but complete, his wife was nagging to get it out from in front of house, so did not spend the time to see what he had, scrapped it for $100 bucks, someone told him ahhhhh probably a 307 smog motor?

Local Junk Yard made a killing on the 421 engine, sold it the next day, with chrome valve covers, also had the emblems on core support and fenders. Vehicle had gauges tach, console............................what a mistake.

 

Its a pain in the ass to time them correctly

 

How so?

Please explain why you think this is true.

I've found setting the timing on them to be the same as any other V8 built during that era, very easy.

 

Yes I want to know this also, please qualify your experiance level

and how do they vary in any way comapred to the other engines you may have timed correctly.

 

I love the Poncho V-8s.

Mine is 601ci, and will power a '65 LeMans.

With 9.5:1 compression, it made 740 hp on pump gas.

But it's almost all aftermarket (block, crank, heads, rods, pistons, intake etc.) so I'm not gonna lie and say it's because of Pontiac's awesome factory parts.

I just dig V-8s, and any V-8 can be made better with the right mods.

Real engine guys challenge themselves a little with every engine build, so non-Chevys offer plenty of challenges. Whether it's finding parts, working with a small budget, or using new technology in an old engine, building non-Chevy V-8s are certainly off teh beaten path...

...which is why they're so much cooler to see, hear, and drive.

I dig Chevys too, but it's the oddball stuff you never forget.

 

I dont really know but for some reason when ever I try to time a pontiac motor its always a pain in the ass for me compared to another v8. I think Im cursed or something but the new v6 are a real pain in the ass because of the dual overhead cam shaft

 

Not any more... maybe true in the 80's... Pontiac has come along way. You'll be seeing more in the future.

.

 

Ya-see that's chevy talk. All chevy guys think you need to wind a motor up to the moon to make power.... well this is correct for a chevy motor... NOT for a Pontiac.

5,600 rpm in the picture... record holder..

.http://thumb15.webshots.net/t/72/72/6/76/65/2088676650103647815iUIPDJ_th.jpg

 

Not to high jack the thread but, does anybody make a better water pump for a Pontiac v8 ? I hate the design of these freaking pumps. Goddamn diffuser plates and a million places to spring a leak. Is there a better mouse trap out there?

 

You'll need the plates no matter what.

They don't have a problem with leaks unless the timing cover or plates are corroded.

The '68 and earlier engines use 2 plates, the '69 and later use one only.

Be sure to get a water pump with a cast impeller, not stamped-steel.

Close up the gap between the impeller and the hole in the plate so it's less than 1/16", with a gasket in place of course.

Read all about this plate to impeller clearance mod, almost 1,000 posts and 40,000 views:http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=411256

 

Simply put it takes knowledge skill tenacity money to build and find the parts for a <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1lace>Pontiac</st1lace></st1:City>. I have a 34 ford roadster with a 508 <st1:City><st1lace>Pontiac</st1lace></st1:City> and now building a 23 roadster with a super duty 421. Any body can buy a crap sbc and Trans and put bolt A into hole B (oh did I say crap I think I meant crate. Stick to your beliefs and people will look at the Pontiac and say “nice small block but what is wrong with your exhaust” and that the smart ones (Pontiac are Cubes of a big ford and revs of a small block chevy) stay with it and dare to be different. And when your asked to light em up tell em no, they will ask why Answer is because I can!!!! <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o> </o>

 

Ask Eddie Hill if they suck.

 

That was a "bean counter" decision...not a engineering (gear head) decision.....all about being cheap to produce.....look where GM is now ?!?!
When bean counters starting building cars they sucked !
JMO...

 

Crazy Larry Quinn's 62.....Car speaks for it self....I hear it will be bigger and faster next season...Rick Johnson's clean red 62 runs 's 8's too.....at less than 500 cubes too from what iI was told...Spins it upwards of 9-10 K...
My friend & engine builder Jack Gaydosh used to spin his 535 Poncho to 10K @ 7.60's @ 185+ MPH. After like 200 passes it still dynoed 1,180 HP !!!!Naturally asperated....nah.....Pontiac motors suck..
I run a Jack Gaydosh built 508 in my 60 NSS car. damn thing weighs 4,100 pounds but still clicks off 10 second passes in good air. It also has over 200 passes on it spinning to 7K+ every pass !! Guess it sucks too...

 

Traded a 301 for a box of donuts. Both parties walked away laughing at the other.

Pontiacs are expensive compared to Ford, Chev or Mopar. But a lot of good combos are out there. Just have to go to a thorough machinist familiar withthem or you will have problems. Just like Buick or Olds. And you build them for torque not power, and limit revs to 5-6k max. You can get more RPM out of them but it's just not necessary for street.

 

That's a fuse.

 

So it's the brain dead who shove a chevy in a poncho, doesn't mean the motor is bad, just a guy who's telling ya he can blow up his motor and not have to pay much to fix it, had he left the original motor? ? ? ? He will never know.

 

Very insightful..

Pontiac power is just as good as any others. It's all about how it's built that makes the difference...I'd run one if i had one.

Tinman, that clip is VERY impressive!

 

I saw that Poncho last summer at the nostalgia drags. That car is so far beyond badass!

As a commentary regarding the initial question; I find it funny as hell that the biggest percentage of these folks who would desecrate a Pontiac with a Chevy engine, don't actually spend the money to have a competitive Chevy. Instead, they spend 3 grand on a Chevy engine that my $800 Pontiac 400 could beat like a redheaded stepchild.

 

coupe cool and yes the hemi is boreing

 

Chevy's have a problem spinning past 7 grand without wadding up the bearings or camshaft lobes like bubble gum.

 

cheap power:
4 barrel 455. put it in a 3500 pound vehicle with stock gears and run 14's.
Little cam, 373 gear max, flowing exhaust ( key in pontiac 455's), and run hight 13's.
Put it in a little hot rod, run 12's with a junk yard motor, couple hundred bucks in the motor, plus cam. I would leave a a more mild gear in the rear like a 3.08 for a hot rod, or you will just spin. and you can cruise.

My daily driver for years was a 67 Camaro with a Pontiac 455 in it, that eventually was an 11 second 462 without the nitros on street tires and quiet exhaust and decent rear gears. = 10's with Hoosiers and exhaust open, without the nitros.

getting a 31 Pontiac 5 window together now GTO tri power engine.

wil
www.sakowskimotors.com

 

Don't over rev a Pontiac like a redneck, and it won't blow up.

Over revving like a redneck make you SLOWER at the track, not faster. Shift 500 rpms under where your redline is, and you will be FASTER down the track in a long stroke Pontiac.
wil
www.sakowskimotors.com

 

I've owned quite a few Pontiac's myself. Once you've owned one it's easy to fall in love with the marque. 389 Tripowers, 421 Tripowers.. 400's out of the box just good strong and fast.


Plus I say..

Pontiac was a true American.. Chevrolet was a Frenchmen.

So who has the right idea? Us Chief Pontiac Lovers or the Bowtie set?

 

Pontiac just rocks; One of my favorites was the 265.

Much more later.

 

Among my other projects, I am building a 265. should be a neat little motor when it is together.
Steve

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Alot of people dump on the 265, but ours was very reliable and smooth.
It then later served many years as a taxicab after my parents sold it; i used to see it every now and then. Which shows how durable the engine was.


2) It's not so much "why do pontiac engines suck?" It's why did the chevy become mega-everyday-probably have parts sold at walmart popular and the pontiac, well, didn't.

i mean on paper the pontiac was probably just as good as the sbc and in fact, as you probably know, the rocker arm design was actually pontiac's.

i guess the real question is why did the sbc get so popular?

 

They sure do suck!I was building a bbc for my sanddragster and was running into money issues.Took a look around the shop and found a 400 poncho ,reringed it and put a paw cam in it and ran it for a season with a 250 shot plate kit.I dropped the pan and inspected everything and put it back together for the next season with twin turbos running 25 psi.Oh and a small 100 shot on that.I did my best to scatter that engine and ended up losing a turbo and finished the bbc to put in it.The engine ended up on a stand in the corner of the shop until one day a young man 16-17 ,came in and asked if I had any pontiac engines for sale.I told him the history and how I had abused it and he bought it from me and installed it.That damn car hauled ass.I have had several hotrod pontiacs and will again.I doubt a sbc would live with this kind of abuse considering the half ass rebuild that poor old 400 got.

 

Nice motor!!

 

I went with the 500 hp SBC route in a Firebird, because it was a cheaper bang-for-the-buck than doing the original Pontiac. So, there's another proof positive of why you see chevs in a poncho.
I rebuilt the 400 in my goat and man, was I impressed with the way it is manufactured (strong) and it's fun enough running them as stockers on the street with the low end torque.