Hot Rods For Debate: When Did Hotrodding Take Root?

Personally, I think it really "officially" started during Prohibition when moonshine runners really started swapping parts, frames, wheels, motors, etc. in order to stay ahead of Revenuers (and out of prison)...Junior Johnson, anyone? This also lead to the beginning of NASCAR, which, IMHO, has been in a sad state of freefall since the early 90's. We need the likes of Dale Earnhardt, Smokey Yunick and Darrel Waltrip out there again...

 

Hi, ThunderAce. It was an honest question, not rehetorical. 23 liters sounded like a ton of CID, that's all. I'd hear that some early cars (Hispano Suiza, Lagonda had sone mills with LONG strokes and 700- or 800- CID.

Anyway, no pointless arguments have broken out. People seem to have contributed several facts and informed theories which, at this point seem to point to sometime in the 1940s as the era when the actual term "hotrod" came into use.

So, it seems we've analyzed two sides of a coin here: [1] when altering of stock cars to change their appearance and perfromance got going, and [2] when the hotrodding term caught on.

This has just been a sort of open forum, and I think it has been serving a purpose -- FUN, if nothing else! Keep it coming, guys!

 

Whoa, JimBob! You posted while I was keying, I guess. BUT, you said a mouthful! You wrote:

Personally, I think it really "officially" started during Prohibition when moonshine runners really started swapping parts, frames, wheels, motors, etc. in order to stay ahead of Revenuers (and out of prison)...Junior Johnson, anyone?

I think someone else has already posted here to back up that hopping up cars to run "shine" was a definite factor in the '30s, feeding directly into a "legitimate" hobby/sport, soon to be known as hotrodding. And the general consensus here seems to be that the TERM "hotrodding" caught on sme time in the '40s.

 

JimBob, I have to agree with you about NASCAR, at least to osme extent. I don't feel the old "pull" every Saturday/Sunday to drop everything else & watch the race, ya know?

Freefall? Some might feel that way. Over-hyped, over-regulated and -- MOST OF ALL -- homogenized to the point where the races have lost the old excitement and "edginess" they used to have.

If NASCAR wanted to juice up the end of the season with the current format, I guess they accomplished that. BUT, it automatically made EVERY drive no in "the chase" IRRELEVANT!!!

Secondly, the SEASON is what 36-38 races? They ALL should count. I like mark Martin & Tony Stewart, both. But, when everybody started over, essentially, Martin benefitted & Stewart lost ground he'd worked for, in my opinion. Regardless of how osme people feel about the "bad boy of NASCAR," or how much sentimentality there may be for Mark, I liked the OLD system better.

To boil it down, has NASCAR just become a "product"?

 

Yeah it's a crazy size for an engine, the Count was completely mad.
The last car he had built went even further, 27 litre Liberty V12,
that one held the land speed record for a while, but it also killed it's driver.

I guess the real peak of the hot rodding crazy would probably have come as a result of many of the early magazines, when did they start ?

 

ThunderAce, I think you pose a very good question there. An there are serveral facets to it! First, it wasn't ONLY journals specifically dedicated to automotibles; from the 1890s, people were FASCINATED by the fast-evolving automobile. So, cars & inventors were a popular subject for LAY publications and general mechnical journals, too. Just a quick check shows that the magazine "Motor Age" goes back at LEAST as early as 1917. I'M SURE LOTS OF OTHER HAMBERS CAN CHIP IN WITH NAMES OF OTHER EARLY CAR-RELATED PUBS, TOO!

So, did popular literature help FEED development of the automobile (and, later, hotrodding)? Or, did America's budding love affair with the automobile help sell magazines? I WOULD SUGGEST IT WAS/IS A SYMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP!!!

 

Well, looks like the consensus seems to be shaking out that: (1) The "roots" of rodding go DEEP into U.S. auto-making history, THEN (2) began to JELL in the '30s and, FINALLY (3), became de facto "official" when a single popular term became popularly accepted to DEFINE the hobby/movement, sometime during the '40s: "Hotrodding."

Is that a decent summation? s'been fun kickin' this around!!!

 

Well no, I would largely argue that the oversized engine in outdated frame was started by people like Count Zborowski, and the lower stance is also a European thing.

The French started auto racing, so you can't claim that one ether.

I know it's easy to forget, but a huge number of the advances from simple gearcutting to the Hotchkiss drive were European, USA's firsts were Autoboxes and Monocoque.

I am not claiming that Hot rodding started in Europe, more that it was at least in part a reaction to the kind of things which were happening there, ie if the fancy new import you can't afford has a lower body line, that's when the idea comes to chop an old high body down .

 

I think it started when with the first guy to make his wheel rounder and go faster, is there anything that hasn't been made to go faster,or have more power? Steam engines, cars, chariots, Tim Allens dishwasher in home improvement? (had a turbo charger)

 

We can't assume that this was printed in 1908. It may have been printed in later times and the term "hotrod" applied to the story. It is was printed in 1908, it certainly was a historic use of the term hotrod and the earliest that I have ever heard of.

 

I'd pretty much agree with it, except that #2 should be the '20s, when the Model T speedster craze got going in full swing. That was also the origin of "hot rod" aftermarket parts.

1917 Roof Auto Specialty Co. advertisement

 

I am not claiming that Hot rodding started in Europe, more that it was at least in part a reaction to the kind of things which were happening there, ie if the fancy new import you can't afford has a lower body line, that's when the idea comes to chop an old high body down .[/QUOTE]

Cutting down a high body was not a result of a passion for the oddly-styled English cars or the ornamented French cars, it was the greed for speed. Lower the wind resistance, the center of gravity and you add performance. That has been written about in countless books on the early days of hot rodding.
As an aside, the Mercer and the Stutz had the idea of low and fast very early on.

 

BigDaddyO! I am glad to see some guys still have slants (AND fatcs!) to ocntribute here! YOU, sir, are very thoughtufl and very well-spoken. THANKS again for chipping in! VERY interesting points(S) here.

Jumping ahead of myself, I am SUPER-glad somebody mentioned Stutz, Mercer AND the Ford-T speedster, as THEY were doing the light & fast thing BEFORE WWI !!! I'd add a few others, not the least of which being REO Speedwagon & the Brush Runabout (very EARLY).

The whole idea was low profile & better power-to-weight ratio. [NOTE: Remember when MoPar took it TOO far with a 426 in a convertible? Chassis taking huge punishment.] I have NO problem with alluding to what the Brits & French were doing, as THEY were VERY influential in early uato design & technology. Again, Yanks were VERY enthusiastic about early automobiling, EVEN people who couldn't afford a CAR! So, yes, theywere hungry to read about any and all new developments (and just plain experiments).

Now, you said push the roots of rodding back to the '20s. I'd say (vis a vie Mercer Stanley, Stutz AND others), younger car-buyers were puttig down CASH to buy early light & LITHE cars, veen before World War I. SURE, the technology changed RAPIDLY, but where the hell did people get pointed in the right direction? (I'd give an honorable mention to Jordan's Speedway Ace and the '32 Graham Blue Streak, too.)

GREAT input, buddy!

I don't know that we're going to come up wih the DEFINITIVE roots of "hotrodding," the greed for SPEED came very, VERY early, eh???

 

Here's a late-race pic of Mel arquette's McFarlan at the second running of
the Indy 500, in 1912. Pic is from the U.S. Library of Congress.

Though auto racing & rodding are two separte genres, I'd sure argue that formal racing had a motivational effect on young guys dreaming of going fast!

 

Oops,I meaant Mel "Marquette. Sorry.

 

Not to get off topic here, but I've actually taken a greater interest in the Truck Series...shorter races, drivers (kids) trying hard to make a name for themselves, older vets showing they still have it, teams that can build their own trucks...

 

Yeah, JimBob. Went to a truck race couple of years ago at Ky Motor Speedway. TON of FUN !!!

 

AND a lot of the "old" guys who got squeezed out of the top series (which I insist on Still calling Winston Cup) wnet "down" to trucks and have done VERY well!

 

Me too! As fas as the old guys, I don't care for Skinner too much, but Hornaday and Benson are great! And I miss North Wilkesboro!

 

Jim-Bob! I thought I was the only one who misses North Wilkesboro. When an older track gets lost, a piece of NASCAR tradition dies. Hell, if they'd KEPT North Wilkesboro and LOST New Hampshire, maybe Kenny Irwin & Adam Petty would still be alive & competing.

I APOLOGIZE TO EVERYONE . . . we got off-track with NASACR rants. But, racing & rodding are joined at the hip, no?

THANKS for putting up with us! LOL

 

Very interesting.

However, the first motor racing was much older than 1890.
Steam boats raced on the big rivers for fun, wagers, and prestige (and women) at least as far back as 1850.
Yes, they crashed, blew up, and sunk - hundreds killed. Some of the wrecks have never been found.

 

PANIC wrote; Very interesting. However, the first motor racing was much older than 1890. Steam boats raced on the big rivers for fun, wagers, and prestige (and women) at least as far back as 1850. Yes, they crashed, blew up, and sunk - hundreds killed. Some of the wrecks have never been found.

You are absolutely right, PANIC. Just like the guys who said that horsemen (AND women) always wanted to see who had the fastest.

THOUGH this "drive" is not exclusive to the United States, I'd have to say that anyone working their tails off to make a powered machine WOULD be UP for a "drag race" to see who had the BEST machine -- in THEIR locality and according to the state of engineering arts.

This is a GREAT post, 'cause it's about the old competitive spirit (hell, there wasn't much in the way of movie theaters, Nintendo, etc., back in the 1850s!!! LOL).

I guess, I certainly can't count out STEAM, since Stanley, Doble and nearly two-dozen OTHERS tried to make steam viable in automobiles.

So -- in fairness -- WHERE are the roots of rodding??? MAYBE IT REALLY DOES GO BACK TO THAT COMPETIVE STREAK that all human beings seem to have imbedded in them. And, SO, the roots of rodding are our own roots, going back to the earliest days of THIS country, as well as to Germany, France, etc.

I honestly didn't dream that guys would respond to the original QUESTION with so much enthusiasm, opinions, individual perspectives -- and GREAT information! Great thread (at least in my opinion! LOL).

 

dont know when it started but surely henry ford was a hot rodder building souped up cars in order to raise capital from almost day one did he not set a land speed record on ice

 

RussTee, yeah! I think T-Time in Post #42 echoes your general sentiments, man. He ALSO notes that the "T" speedsters really got a-GOin' in the early '20s, about simultaneously with the development of a market (and, of course, SUPPLIERS) for SPEED parts!!!

 

I'll have to go check for sure, but I think Henry Ford also raced, on-on-one with Charles King, VERY early on. He lost first year, so he built a better racer & beat his friend & (somewhat) mentor a year later.

(I'm foggy on years and whether it might have been Olds or Winton instead of King. Bear with me & I'll ocme back with those fine points later,guys.)

 

Okay, guys I went to the manuscript of my own book on early cars & car-makers. I don't have the exact years, but the following would have been right after the turn of the last century. Book excerpt:

Anyone who builds cars wants to race them to see what they can prove against real competition, and Winton was no different. After the turn of the century, Winton lost two straight races to young upstart Henry Ford. Winton didn't stop working on his race car until he could beat Ford. Then, amazingly, Winton shared the design for his steering system with Ford, who went on to more race wins and future industrial success. Lifelong, Ford never forgot the man who helped him get a leg up.

 

Dude! Did ya see Hornaday messing with Matt Crafton this past race? Now THAT is funny!

 

Adam and Eve had a footrace. Adam won...

 

Excuse me. I may be a man, but as I recall, EVE came out with Adam's extra rib as a prize! Maybe that's why guys nowadays work harder on keeping their edge? LOL