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Need advice: welding overhead

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by 55chieftain, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. 55chieftain
    Joined: May 29, 2007
    Posts: 2,188

    55chieftain
    Member

    I'm doing some welding on my frame. The body is maybe 8" off the frame for some floor repair. I'm running .035 wire, 180 amp welder w/shielding gas, i've tried changing wire speed , heat settings and can't put up a good bead for nothing. Bottom of frame is maybe over a foot off the ground and i'm lying on my back trying to do this. Any good tricks or advice out there?

    I can get a bunch of tack welds together , but really want to run a series of beads where i'm boxing my frame. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Kilroy
    Joined: Aug 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,227

    Kilroy
    Member
    from Orange, Ca

    Switch to .024 wire, check your ground real good and make sure the area you're trying to weld is clean (but don't clean it with brake cleaner :( )... Then get comfortable and be patient...

    All things I suck at...

    Another thing to check is that the 120 outlet you're hitting is a good one. Don't plug into extension reels or long, low quality extension cords. Believe it or not, it makes a huge difference.
     
  3. Is the frame clean inside and out? You really have to be honest with yourself on this one... Once that steel melts, any crap in there is going to come right out the bottom. You have to have a good ground path as well. If the welder is hunting for ground, the voltage will spike and melt the s**t out of everything you try to weld.

    Other than that, just make sure you have the gun pointed up at the joint at about a 45deg angle and lead it slightly for penetration.
     
  4. Geophyguy
    Joined: Jun 10, 2009
    Posts: 124

    Geophyguy
    Member

    An old welder told me to always make sure your in a comfortable position or your welds will suffer. Any way you can jack the car up higher and get at it a little better. A foot off the ground seems pretty tight.
     

  5. barslazyr
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 339

    barslazyr
    Member

    As said above .024 wire good ground and get comfortable. Also make sure you have good leathers on, hot spark can screw up a good weld fast if it ends up in the wrong spot, lol
     
  6. 55chieftain
    Joined: May 29, 2007
    Posts: 2,188

    55chieftain
    Member

    A few things here, 230v welder . The frame is a little pitted , I thought it was clean enough? I cleaned off the bottom pretty good I thought. I think I had the wire speed too high on this side?
     

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  7. skullhat
    Joined: May 30, 2009
    Posts: 892

    skullhat
    Member

    i think id stick with the 035 for a frame



    skull
     
  8. Fenders
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 3,921

    Fenders
    Member

    For MIG it can't be "clean enough," it has to be CLEAN.
     
  9. Kilroy
    Joined: Aug 2, 2001
    Posts: 3,227

    Kilroy
    Member
    from Orange, Ca

    I thought that too... I resisted switching for a long time because I got a ton of .035 wire free and the logic didn't fit in my head... But the last time I needed a bottle I bought some .024...

    I get better localized heat penetration with .024 and the weld doesn't build as fast so I can keep the heat on it longer...
     
  10. I Drag
    Joined: Apr 11, 2007
    Posts: 883

    I Drag
    Member

    I believe it is less wire speed, more heat for overhead welding (?).

    Put some duct tape over your ears to keep sparks out. That much I know.
     
  11. DirtySanchez
    Joined: Aug 31, 2006
    Posts: 408

    DirtySanchez
    Member
    from So Cal

    I think it's less speed, more heat. At least logic says so. Prevents feeding so much wire into the weld resulting in more up and less down.
     
  12. Ghost28
    Joined: Nov 23, 2008
    Posts: 3,200

    Ghost28
    Member

    normally 0 35 wire has it's own shielding gas, and will work for heavier metals. But you are using a bottle so switch to 0 24 or 0 23 wire and I am sure will get just as good penetration with a higher heat setting. Your metal doesn't look clean enough? And as stated above get real comfortable in your position this will help . along with cleaning you face shield, and plenty of work lighting...John
     
  13. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    When welding sheetmetal the small wire is your friend- smaller wire takes less heat(fewer amps) to melt and that equals less distoration of holes in your welded piece.

    For plate , pipe or channel, or your frame, you need the heat (amps) to melt and penatrate to produce a sound, strong weld. This when you need that bigger wire!

    No weld on rusted, oiley or painted metal will be worth a damn!

    Swankey Devils c.C.
    "All great truths begin as blasphemies"
     
  14. Mark Hinds
    Joined: Feb 20, 2009
    Posts: 616

    Mark Hinds
    Member
    from pomona ca

    What sheilding gas are you using. Try pulsing the weld, add a spot stop then spot it again until you finish the weld. When I use a mixed gas that technic works pretty good for me.
     
  15. Grind that metal clean, not just a wire brush. Too much wire speed also it looks like to me. I agree with all the others, get it higher off the ground so you have room to work and change your welding angles until it welds nice. Also, remember, that overhead welding takes a lot of practice, and you will wear lots of weld droplets.

    Doug
     
  16. .manny
    Joined: Nov 12, 2008
    Posts: 136

    .manny
    Member

  17. budd
    Joined: Oct 31, 2006
    Posts: 3,478

    budd
    Member

    heres what the miller site says, i have done overhead mig welding i used a stitch method, one puddle at a time, you might think it takes longer but i think it takes longer to clean off a mess and redo.
     

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  18. AllSteel36
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 560

    AllSteel36
    Member
    from California

    You need to bring up the heat, and move faster...upping the heat gives you the "penetration" and moving faster keeps it from falling on your head, buubling up and dripping/etc.

    You can't do an overhead weld like you do something laying on the bench.
     
  19. 392_hemi
    Joined: Jun 16, 2004
    Posts: 1,736

    392_hemi
    Member

    Man, that isn't even close to being "clean enough". First step is to grind or otherwise clean to bright metal. That should be standard procedure for all your welds. Next, as allsteel said, get the machine set up so you can move at a decent speed. If you're going to slow or stalling, you're going to have problems. Another thing you might try is a slight weave instead of a straight line.
     
  20. shortbed65
    Joined: Feb 20, 2009
    Posts: 204

    shortbed65
    Member
    from ne Ill

    Can't flip the frame upside down?
    Welding overhead with a mig is basically a waste of time , I would push the weld puddle instead of dragging
    6010 3/32" stick is your best friend for the situation
     
  21. AllSteel36
    Joined: Jul 20, 2009
    Posts: 560

    AllSteel36
    Member
    from California

    No way my friend, just as using a DC Arc welder, going over head with a Mig just takes a small amount of practice.

    Just have to be sure of what you're doing, and move along are the right clip of speed..hang around to see what you're welding, then you get puddles dripping on yo yout head.

    Undersyand the heat you need to weld the metal, then get with it, don't dally around, and just keep moving.
     
  22. Deuce Daddy Don
    Joined: Apr 27, 2008
    Posts: 5,544

    Deuce Daddy Don
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    As a pipe welder, in the ditch at all positions, I can pass this on to you, buy a welders hat with large brim & slightly larger than your head----You know the type---Polka dots---figures--etc. Turn the brim sideways & tuck your ear under the large brim,(whichever ear is exposed to sparks), This will give you maximum protection for your ear, which will in turn, keep you from going beserk with all the sparks flying around.
    Stay with .035 wire, before starting to weld, clip the small ball off the end of wire, make sure nozzle end is at least 1/4 inch higher than power tip.
    As mentioned by others, hold the nozzle at 33--45 angle, don't try & do it with one hand, use the other hand to steady yourself as you push the trigger.
    Also, after welding overhead, check inside the nozzle for material build up which will short out the process unless cleaned out thoroughly from time to time, dip the tip in "spatter off" jar too.
    Get your machine set on same thickness material with flow meter set at 20, when you are satisfied with everything set,-----give it a go with above instructions!!!--------Don
     
  23. Johnny99
    Joined: Nov 5, 2006
    Posts: 1,068

    Johnny99
    Member

    As stated above, make yourself comfy as possible. Get the frame a little higher, prop/lean against something to stabilize yourself while welding. 75% Argon/25% CO2 cover gas is the best for a nice smooth mig weld, straight CO2 will also work, not as smooth and more splatter, but more forgiving when welding over rusty greasy crap! Keep your tacks as small and widely spaced as possible, clean up tacks with a grinder BEFORE welding if you need to. Slang term for mig welding "short arc" for good reason, keep your arc length short! I like to push the wire with a 10 to 20 degree lead angle. Stick with the .035 wire. With some practice, practice, practice you can make overhead look nice. In the words of Lil John Buttera " If I woulda been standing up that weld woulda been bitching"
    Good luck John:)
     
  24. When I was much younger and had trouble welding upside down, I reversed the polarity in the shop MIG welder and I've never had a better weld, welding upside down. I've never reversed another MIG since and I don't know why it worked so well 25 years ago. I weld upside down now and use the spot weld method. Burn one spot hot, wait til it almost cools and move on. Takes some time but comes out pretty nice.
     
  25. georgedombeck
    Joined: Jul 4, 2009
    Posts: 77

    georgedombeck
    Member

    That overhead outside corner is pretty advanced stuff. Clean the metal with a grinder. As others have said you must be comfortable, and use two hands. One to trigger and one for support/steady yourself. Take your time. Welding is not a speed contest. If you can get the bead to stay put , go ahead and do a fast triggering thing. Like firing a burst with a machine gun. Good luck. g
     
  26. nowhere close to being clean enough, and if your ground is on that rusty metal, you can forget any good welding and just drink a soda instead...also, what exactly are you doing there?
     
  27. crackerass54
    Joined: Jun 1, 2009
    Posts: 364

    crackerass54
    Member
    from dallas

    leave yourself alittle gap so the weld has a place to go, don't change any setting on the welder to make it work, if you need 80 amps to weld topside why would you need less to weld underneath?it just takes some practice
     
  28. kevinc
    Joined: Jul 6, 2008
    Posts: 95

    kevinc
    Member
    from highland

    ya dip and a clean nozzle will make a world of difference
     
  29. when i was being instructed to weld overhead we clamped some sheetmetal to a table and away we went. what a fucking nightmare if you didn't have your shit covered and your welds reflected the fact you couldn't concentrate because you were dodgeing sparks. start by practicing on some thing other than your frame. i always found arc welding with small rod worked better for overhead than mig.
     
  30. 55chieftain
    Joined: May 29, 2007
    Posts: 2,188

    55chieftain
    Member

    The rusty sides of the frame doesn't show how I cleaned the bottom side. 4 1/2" Grinder than angle die grinder with 50 grit sander disc. Than if that didn't do it die grinder w/cut off wheel to get the bad spots. I probably had it 90-95% rust free where i'm actually welding. I'm also using 75/25 gas mix. Thanks for the input so far. Flipping the frame over isn't an option at this point.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2009

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