Hey all, Just wondering If anyone from New South Wales has or does run a Suicide Perched front Ford I beam axle on their rod. I'm thinking of going that way possibly, but I have not seen any car in Oz running this. Don't really know how Engineers look upon this kind of set-up in this state. My plan is to construct something based on this design (Pic 1 but without the "Z", found it on the HAMB) on the front of my 1935 Pontiac chassis a couple of inches forward on the original crossmember, using a spring over axle design axle. Not going for mega low, just moving the axle furthur forward and a drop of around 2.5" as I need to replace my original X member anyway. I am going to consult an engineer, but I thought maybe someone could help me out first so It's not wasting my time. Or I could just put in a Ford X member in the place of my orig X member... Does It have to be bolted or can it be welded in? The Main Goal is to convert to Ford I Beam axle suspension. Any Input would be appreciated Thanks, you guys are so cool...
This is how I have done mine. Best to touch base with the engineer you will be using to see if he has any conditions.
Why not just run a 37-38 front wishbone, as JimmyB has. It'll get you low without the need to run a suicide perch, esp seeing as you have a GM chassis which has no front crossmember that is similar to a Ford one.
Most Tee bucket chassis are like what you are after, but your engineer is the one that needs convincing. Round up plenty of photos of Tee buckets with full NSW rego it may help swing him your way, good luck, it's all ahead of me too.
1. T buckets use this setup. 2. You cannot get full rego on a t bucket in NSW. 3. Buckets can have club rego only, which ovbviously means you also have to be a member of an ASRF affiliated club. 4. The only ones (few) that are on full rego, are very old ones that are grandfathered.
I seriously didn't know that NSW wouldn't register a T! You would probably get more info from Oz Rodders, just wade through the 'Just buy a kit' and 'Do it the new way' mob, you want a trad car, go for it. Hey Jimmy, whats your front spring from? Doc.
In NSW full rego is only available for modified original cars, on on the ICV (full ADR's for the year of construction). T buckets are neither an original chassis or body. Yes there are 32's and 4's on full rego with repro chassis and plastic bodies but re. the chassis they are a case of a nod's as good as a wink to the inspecting engineers, thank god. And the RTA knows what a t-bucket is. On the other hand, there's no reason why you can't run it by an engineer first to save grief. And feel free to get a second opinion too.
Gee, thanks. The car is an Aussy survivor, first rodded in the early 60's, re-built to this in the late 70s stayed untouched until recently my father put a bloody L300 front under it. This was my daily driver from 96 to 02, while building my 28 RPU and a spate of O/T Fast bikes. Doc. PS, it sat a lot lower in the rear, this was after having the diff out for work. Had to put it together in a hurry for my sisters wedding and didnt put the lowering blocks in.
Yes you can.... A mate of mine did it in 2008 with a freshly constructed car. The only thing is that it must run an original chassis. And awith an original chassis it is VERY hard to get an engineer (now retired) to sign off on a V8 due to the low original weight. The suicide front end wasn't even questioned though.
Well, that's the loophole, an original chassis. But I wouldn't want to start a club of t buckets built with original T chassis!
Thanks for the replies, So The fact that I'm running the original chassis (which looks alot stronger than the original ford one... the thing is crossmembered and doubled all over ) is going to work in my favour and the also that I'm using a 265 Hemi 6 instead of a V8 should help convince the engineer as well? Stovebolt, forgive my ignorance( this is my first Rod, still learning the about the equipment ) , the setup JimmyB has is ( where the spring is mounted out the front, up higher and not underneath and further back like a stock location, except spring above the axle) what I was planning to do, but what do you mean about the "wish-bone" front-end? I see that the "Bones" connecting the axle to the chassis aren't going straight back and connecting to each side like most I've seen but seem triangulated, is this so a panhard rod is not needed like in a triangulated 4 link rear setup to hold it stable laterally( which is what I'm running on the rear )? Are these bars separate or a one piece V shape? ( Again, sorry for my ingnorance )
You know what? Croney you and other new-to this guys should really do yourselves a huge favor and get some resto type books with lots of pic and diagrams about old Fords, or look up on the net or whatever and familiarise yourselves with original 1930's Fords and their suspensions. Then you'll have a much better idea of where the the whole modified thing comes from. That is, this is the stock starting point ... and his is where you end up. I also say this because most guys are building Ford based hot rods, but many that use off brands then want to use Ford based suspension setups as well, so the know-how is still relevant. Also, do a search here for chassis builds, there are many so study them as well. Many ways to skin a cat, but most are based on Ford DNA. 1. Ford wishbones are 1 piece with a single ball/socket at the back under the gearbox area. 2. Splitting involves cutting the centre out of this and mounting each 1/2 of the bone out at the rails. 3. NSW engineers especially don't like this (come on someone will trot out an exception). 4.If in doubt, TALK to your nearest RTA approved engineer first, run it by him, it may save a lot of grief. No one on this board will ultimately be signing off on your engineer papers for rego! Hope this helps. (please tell me you're not planing on a spider web grille?)
Just did some searching and found this pic. This Is what he's running, right? Just hadn't seen bones like that before. I've seen the light. Seems like the way to go. That's a ball and pocket coupling on the end right? When I get the setup I'll have to get that pocket coupling too. JimmyB have you got any pictures of where and how that coupling is mounted on your rod?
No spider web (yet) . I just didn't know they were joined from factory, I'd only seen them split that's what was confusing me. Thanks for the replies. This is probaly what I'm am going with. Nice and simple. I've being learning and researching as much as I can, just some of wording threw me. This looks alot safer than an axle in-front setup, as the axle can just rest against the chassis in case of a failure. Does anyone a setup like this they can sell? Might need one after I speak to my engineer.
That setup with the spring in front of the axle was basically the same 35 -48. I say basically because there were variations every couple of years. From A to 1934 spring was over the axle.
I see. Looks nice and clean that way... I'm thinking this should be ok to the engineer... It's nowhere near as radical and dangerous (!) looking as some of the American cars I've seen. Drilled bones with the spring shackle bolted to the bone with one bolt (!) each side behind the axle. All that's holding the front of the car off the road is those 2 bolts....Scary.
I think beefy tie rod ends are good to split the bones a-la Jimmy B. Unfortunately some engineers don't see it that way. Then there are engineers who will listen to reason and those who are just plain prejudiced.
As far as i'm aware, you can't buy repro wishbones or split bones. You'll have to obtain some originals, which isn't THAT hard cause we're a minority in Australia and most of the street rodders ditch them for an ugly ass Holden IFS. Your options are basically: Original wishbone with the ball and cup. Splitting the bones and having them in the same area as original and using a tie rod end to mount them to a crossmember / chassis somehow. Splitting the bones and mounting them with a tie rod end, to the chassis rails so their parallel instead of the original mounting. From what i've gathered, engineers don't like this one. My '28 A will have the second option. I think it looks better in the original location, but also works better split. A mate has a '29 A Roadster and from what he's said, his wanders a bit with how he has his setup. He has '38 bones, welded to a Model A ball. If your going for a V8, you might want to opt for the later ('34 onwards i'm pretty sure) as their beefier than Model A. I'm running a banger in mine, so Model A bones will be fine for my setup.
If you want to leave the wishbone unsplit and you don't have the original ball socket out of the donor chassis you can buy 2 of the lower cups in the aftermarket and graft one into your crossmember. I realised this after I butchered an otherwise very good '48 chassis
That's true. And you'll need a new rubber ball insulator as well. Wanders a bit StarGit? Lots of reasons for that, including lack of caster which needs to be factored in at the fab stage.
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