There's been some interesting posts lately about cars getting bounced for (very) minor infractions ... intriguing stuff! How bout some of the really blatant shenanigans that went on ... and often 'got by.' I recall watching (at Englishtown) as one well-known late-model Oldsmobile sedan left the line -- the entire body 'stood up' about 8 inches when it launched ... really impressive! A few weeks later I read that it was disqualified at a points meet for (no kidding) NO rear UPPER CONTROL ARMS. Guess he would have had to weld-solid, or immobilize the lower control arm pivot points for that to work at all. To the aforementioned devious Oldsmobile owner's credit, it sure took more gray matter and ingenuity than the unscrupulous owners of those Chevrolet 409 powered "348s," the 327/350 powered "283s" and the Pontiac 347/389 powered "317s." Those unethical "racers" robbed many of us of that "big" $50-to-$100 Jr. Stock Eliminator prize at the 'typical' weekend races during the late sixties. To win like that seems about as satisfying an endeavor as purse snatching!
I've heard stories like that before about the local strips here back in the Sixties. The staging lanes were full of only 396's, only 348's, only 383's, only 283's, etc., etc. There were NO 427's, NO 409's, NO 440's, NO 327's etc., etc!
I recall a certain tan colored Olds Delta 88 SS/OA (class winner at Gainesville, Fla. back in the day) in Div. 1 (might be the same guy you are talking about) that pulled the no upper control arm deal (used a ladder bar set up similar to a T-Bolt)and got away with it for quite awhile. Same guy (from Va.) ran Chrysler 426 Hemi rods on his 455 Olds engine in SS/J stick Olds so it would stay in one piece (wider rod bearings and stronger rod) at higher RPMs. This was way before NHRA allowed aftermarket rods in stock and S/S. Ive got a BUNCH of stories I could tell.....LOL.
Pete, If you think the car looks bad you should have seen Callahan's helmet! It slid along the ground when the car flipped!. This happened during nite time time trials and there were sparks all over the place.The next day Tom jumped back into " The Vilian" that Frank Iaconio was driving to compete in the WCS meet. Steve and I won that meet beating Ed Hamburger in the finals. Sanair was a brand new facility and this was the first Canadian/American points meet held their.
X-Tech .....then please pass those stories along because they are certainly enjoyable to read!! thanks
This isnt about stock but I remember at the Pro Stock Open at MIR (Budds Creek, Md.) and a certain Blue and White Hemi Duster (no names) won over Da Grump and the track owner decided to see how big the engine was before he paid the purse. I was there running the scales for the race and was "Drafted" to check the cubic inches and not with the P&G gage. This was at a time that most of the Hemis were running 396 and 404 inch engines at most races. Well I checked it and it was BIG. I believe it was around 472 and the Grump was there in the truck watching me. I called out the numbers that I came up with as all I had was a set of dial calipers that I borrowed from someone and the Grump acually smiled as he did the caculations in his head. I do remember the track owner paying me $100 to do the check and the Grump recieved the winners purse. This was sometime in the early to mid 70,s. It was late and I believe all or most of the other Pro Stock racers had already left the track or they might have "strung the guy up". It was kept kind of quiet and never made any of the racing papers. He might not have know me before the race but he sure remembered me after it and later during the IHRA events.....lol.
As far as being bounced for BS reasons, Marty Snowball's Cobrajet Mustang was bounced for a class win at Indy in the late 70s or early 80s for having 1 TRW pushrod accidently mixed in with the 15 Ford ones. Now theres a real performance advantage for you ! To this day hes still mad about that. I recall Dempsy Hardy getting bounced at Indy in a Pontiac Judge for a fraction of a CC because he didnt know to put the head in a cooler of ice first. Rules are rules but both of those are pretty stupid, surely the tech guy could have told him to cool the head off when it was that close
In Feb 1971 Steve took the wagon to the winternationals at Pomona. My father had just passed away and I didn't make the trip. Steve won class, E/SA at the time, and had to tear down. I am the owner and engine builder and anything done to it was my responsibility. Steve was capable of tearing it down and putting it together. When the piston dome was checked one of the pop ups checked at .121,the other three pistons checked at .120 . .120 was the correct height for the 426 max wedge 11 to 1 motor. He asked to have it checked again and all to our loss. He never asked for a check of calibration on the bridge mic being used. I wish I were there. I will never forget the phone call from him at 1 AM eastern time to tell me. I told him to set the head on ,wrap the motor in plastic and come home. When he got back I checked it and all pistons checked with .120 dome!! We put it back together and went to Gainsville for the Gators and the car ran well but we didn't go far. the car qualified # 3 and we were 8 # lite in the last qualifying round so it was another long ride home. While we were there, at Frank Sulcs urging ,I talked to Jim Mc Graw editor of Super Stock magazine and told him the Pomona story. He told me to send him a letter explaining what happened and he would print it. I didn't like the way it made me look as far as cheating and wanted to set the record straight. Jim did print the letter in I think the May or June '71 issue{ I came across it just recently} and I thought that was the end of it. In may 1971 we went to the WCS meet at Englishtown and set the E/SA record. We tore the motor down {same side} and once I had the piece of paper in my hand saying that I was the record holder I told Darwin and Greg X. that this was the same motor that was bounced at Pomona. No explanation on their part as neither were involved out there. They did say that sometimes things happen. I wrote to Farmer and he called me at Town & Country Dodge in NJ where I was service director. He apologized and said that a mistake was made and really it was best left as it was being that nothing can be done about it now. I wasn't happy as that was a 6400 mile trip that cost about $3400. at that time. Anyway I dropped it, and thought that was the end of it. Labor day weekend the 1971 Nationals Indy. Steve Seaman is no longer driving for me and Vinnie Mayer former track starter at raceway park and driver for John Mason and sometimes Supinski is now driving the wagon, We are at inspection at the oval where they use to do the tech inspecting. As most racers that knew me or Steve or Vinnie, I was always in the background. The driver was the only person anyone saw with the car,I was the gopher and it was fine with me. During inspection Marty Barrett was busting my balls as usual,we were very good friends. and he did it jokingly and everyone was haveing a few good laughs. He loved to pick on division one cars. Anyway I was standing off to the back of the car as Vinnie was dealing with Marty as he was signing the tech card. Someone in a tech uniform said " let's see the tailgat window go down". The wagon is a nine passanger combination. I had the spare set of keys in my pocket and walked over to the tailgate to operate the window from the switch. As I started to do that this same voice said " no- no I want to see it go down from the dash switch". I figure here is another SOB that wants to bust me thinking that the car isn't legit. I start to walk to the drivers door to operate the dash switch and this same voice says " you know- one time it's .001 to much dome on the piston and next it's a tailgate window that you can't operate because the switch isn't there". By now it was quiet around the car as everyone is listening to what is being said. Vinnie had moved towards the back of the car and Marty had gotten up from where he was directing tech { for those that remember Marty Barrett he was a big son of a gun and sat down alot}. I saw red. I asked him if he was the SOB that bounced the car at Pomona and with a big smile he said YES. Just as I was about to grab him Greg X. got in between us along with Vinnie and he told Vinnie to get me and the car out of there before something happened. I never did get the guys full name, I think Paul something, but our paths almost crossed a few times that weekend and he made sure to stay away from me. Well this has been long enough and just wanted to put in my 3 cents about tear down expierences. Dom
I was in quite a few tear down barns with my 455 Buick in late 70's early 80,s. the best one i witnessed was a well know chrysler racer from the north west took a head from a fellow racer with the same combination that had earlier passed tech,got in the rear of the line and ran it thru as his head!!!!!!!!Same racer would pull his ramp truck with 2 55 gallon tanks up to a gas pump,fill one tank up ,flip the lever back to zero and fill the other.go in and pay for just 55 gallons.
I won an IHRA points meet at miami hollywood in the 70's and it was Dempseys icing the head down that helped me make it thru tear down
Dom, I was in the barn in Pomona in 1971. If you ever decide you want the rest of the name, let me know. Chuck
This is a story as told to me by the owner of a SD Pontiac...... Since he has passed away I feel as though I could pass the story on. Around 1961 at a S/S race at York US 30 a lot of up and coming racers were running for the BIG purse of around $150. The final came down to Dave Strickler in his 1961 Biscayne and a well known Southern Md. dark red 1960 SD Pontiac Catalina hard top. At the drop of the flag the SD Pontiac took his car length spot and was on his way to another win. Strickler left right behind the Pontiac and just about where you would hit 4th gear the Pontiac came unglued. From what I was told it threw the crank thru the bottom of the pan and there were ALUMINUM RODS bouncing all over the track not to mention the crank (what was left of it) looked as though the stroke was a little longer than it should have been....LOL. I was told it was around 460 inches instead of the 389 it should have been. This Pontiac guy later on became a famous bracket racer. This story is in no way to look down on him as it was just what was done in those days all over the country. It was a different time and a different world.
Bob R, Thanks for the video link, that was great. Just in case you have not, I sent it to Little George.
Dom said: "Pete, If you think the car looks bad you should have seen Callahan's helmet! It slid along the ground when the car flipped!" I guess that's why they (used to) call it the "skid lid." Thanks for tech story, Dom! Pete
Since we're on a tech certification direction here's a somewhat different slant. At the WCS meet in Englishtown in either '73 or '74 while I was on the tech crew, I had a guy come in at 10 minutes before inspection ended with the wrong casting # on the carburetor (he had a Cadillac Q-jet which has larger primaries). I told him I would cut him a break since there was no way he would be able to find a carb, change it, and get back in 10 minutes. I even told him who had a spare carb. I also told him that I would be in the staging lanes during eliminations and that I would check him then. Well, guess what? He won the first round before I was able to take a look see and I found that he hadn't changed it. I promptly went to the tower and got the guy he beat reinstated. Whereupon he proceeded to get Greg X and told him I said it was OK. Greg found me and ripped me a new one. "You should know better than to give these guys a break". He was obviously right. That guy never talked to me again. Oh well. Skip Asay
Skip, ya know, it's pricks like this guy that screw it up for everyone else. You cut him a BIG break, and in effect, he says: Ha-ha..."f" you. He then gets caught--is guilty as sin--and is still unrepentant; then cops an attitude! The nerve of that jerk! Pete
Well, now you know how Dempsy learned to cool the heads off before they CC'd them. A very hard lesson to be sure but not worse then 1 TRW pushrod DQ'd to me, but damned close. Snowball ran out of Miami/Hollywood too. I was at that IHRA race there I think, was that the one they teched inside the circle track ?
Frank Sulc lived down the street from me when I was a kid, and I remember seeing this car wrecked in his driveway. This is the first picture I've seen though! I don't think they had the car very long before the wreck. Frank was on this thread for a while. Maybe he or Dom could fill us in on what happend to cause the car to flip....and what happened in the aftermath that led to the next car....the orange Challenger. jrstock55
Just going through my racing paper collection sorting out which issues are going to be put up for sale, lo and behold, look at what I came across! I forgot I even had this issue! And of all things, it has an official Duffy's Performance Specialties sticker affixed to the front cover and photo of one of the all-time best running Junior Stockers! Can you say: rare? I can! Can I correctly presume this issue was sold at that once-famous speed shop, for I certainly did not place that sticker there! Anyone? Pete
WK, You have first shot at this issue before I put it up for sale (along with my other issues of Drag Times) in H.A.M.B.'s classified section. Pete
The Jalopy Journal
