350 exhaust cherry red ?

Just fired up a friends 32 Ford last week, he's running a 350 crate motor(87ish year model) with an edelbrock performer, Holley 600 cfm (vaccuum secondaries with #64 main jets), Mallory electronic ignition.
When we fire it up the headers get cherry red within 5 minutes, temperature is over 999 degrees(the max on my scanner). We have tried playing with the timing thinking it may be the problem, but we are wary of running it too long at those temps. The coolant temp gets up to around 175 before we shut it off. The book says 4 degrees BTDC for that year motor, but it's obviously not right.
Any suggestions?

Thanks,

 

Is it possible you have the carb set up way too lean?

 

check for vacuum leaks around carb and intake, as well. coolant temp is safe so thats a good thing so far.

edit- was this the first time run with that carb and intake?

 

Timing to far retarded gas is burning in the headers.

 

Roger has the right idea and since it's a crate motor it could also have the timing chain off a tooth or so. What ever it turns out to be it needs to be fixed asap. Ryan just finished a nightmare with a crate chev motor so any thing is possible.

 

we found a vaccuum leak and fixed that, Holley says the jets are right, but we have not tried to change them yet.
The thought of the timing gears being off a tooth has crossed our minds, but I think we will try advancing the timing first, what would be a good starting point? I've heard that this motor will run at 27 BTDC, but that seems like too much.

 

that 4 degrees timing at idle is for a fuel injection engine with the distributor un plugged(it's a base and then the computer takes over) should be 12 to 15 with 28-32 total

 

Set total timing at 32 degrees as a start.

 

that 4 degrees timing at idle is for a fuel injection engine with the distributor un plugged(it's a base and then the computer takes over) should be 12 to 15 base with 28-32 total

 

I'd say bump that timing up at least 10 degrees and check all the advances. Sounds like the timing is way retarded and the fuel is burning in the header tube, as mentioned before.

 

The distributor is a vaccuum advance style, so timing should be set with the vaccuum off the dist and plugged correct?

 

Keep in mind too that you need more than just initial timing. Does the vacuum advance and/or centifugal advance work like they should? Are the advance weights stuck in the fully advanced or retarded position?

 

Yes plug the vac when setting initial.

 

brand new distributor, so they should be OK, but it is possible.

 

I'm telling you...I've seen this problem a lot of times with rebuilt engines!
After checking all timing/carb adjustments, and vacuum leaks....it's probably the valves are too tight!
Readjust them , running, to zero lash, + 1/4 to 1/2 turn more.

 

What do the plugs look like?

 

Base Crate motor chevy is 7.9 to comp these motos need lots of timing to run ok,12 to 16 btdc with vacuum hose plugged and then hooked to manifold vacuum,will get you in the ball park. Jets don't come in until 2500 rpm.

 

Yes very easy to do with HYD.

 

Plugs looked fine, no deposits or strange color

 

Sure sounds like timing...maybe do a quick TDC on number one and the crank position...

 

Done that, several times, it's correct unless the cam timing is off.

 

Just went through something similar, i had the vacuum advance hooked up to the distributor when I set the initial timing. was about 25 deg retarded.

 

It sounds like either of the following: Cam is not timed correctly; timing is too retarded--- I like about 10 or 12 degrees at idle; or you have a leak between the
intake and heads--- I had that problem one time many years ago. The cause was
the intake gaskets. They were too hard and did not compress. The gaskets were
the early blue one like the blue never retorque head gaskets.
On the timing issue, you could have the wrong timing tab-- balancer combination and you are getting an incorrect reading.

 

I think you can rule out vacuum leaks, as this would cause a lean burn and would show up on the plugs.
Where is the heat greatest on the header?
Maybe to obvious but, is the firing order correct and the distributor in the correct postion...you know,rotor pointing to number one at T.D.C. on compression stroke.
Timing or cam/distributor...but still timing...jmho..

 

Any news Ralph?

 

OK, after a little playing with it she's running cooler on the exhaust with timing set at 25 degrees BTDC, He took it around the block and it had a little stumble and is idling a bit high (800 rpm), but the biggest thing is now the coolant is running hot. Are we too far advanced now?

 

Read a Circle Track article about getting a photo of a dyno engine with the headers cherry red. They said they had to go super RICH to get the headers to glow cherry red. Just 2 cents.

 

Wow, you went from 4-25...is that at 800 RPM?
If so, how about half way...at least ya know its just timing....

 

way to mutch timing

 

braking in my cam with to much ignition burn away the paint on the headers