I bought a decent and fairly tight 1969 f-250 as a donor for my 58 Edsel. It has a 390 and a C6 which eventually will end up in the wagon. It was owned by a "handyman" Everything he touched is rigged up and needs some attention. When I looked at if it made a huffing noise which were from 3 finger tight spark plugs. I tightened and gapped them and it made a big improvement. Now I have found "tune up" related issue #2. He also said he replaced the dist. cap and plug wires. Now that the plugs are tightened I noticed a miss. Then I checked the wires. They are all off by one position. I know the firing order is 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8 On the #1 position is wire #5. So they are all off by one-it's running on 5 4 2 6 3 7 8 1 What's up with that? Did the timing chain jump and this is a rigged up solution? Is the distributor installed wrong? And no, I have not yet done the obvious thing yet and won't be able to for few days. - put them where they should be and see what happens. Whaddya think?
Its time to pull number one plug and run it up to compression, then line up the timing mark on the crank. Then make the dizzy point to where one should be, and you know the rest.
Thanks guys! As it turned out, not only were the plug wires off by one position, the distributor was also off by 2 teeth. We put the dist and the wires where they should be and viola' - nothing but cranking and carb backfires. So tomorrow will be spent bent over the hood of the F-250 changing the timing chain. I In preparation 'm already stretching out my back.
If it was 180 out, would it run at all if the plug wires were moved over one position? When the wires are all off by one spot, it idles quite well but it huffs and stalls under any throttle. It actually ran it's best when I first bought it- 3 loose plugs, wires off by one spot and the distributor off by 2 teeth.
I'm in Scottsdale. But, as you can tell from the pictures (and the fact that I'm still working on my cars as its about to be 116' in Phoenix) the cars are up in Flagstaff where it's about 79 degrees.
If it was 180 off all holy hell would break loose when you try to start it. Burpin' fireballs outta the carb and spittin' gasoline everywhere. Trust me, I've had every hair on my forearm singed off...
I hear ya. Just came in from changing the timing - more - on the 32 and a couple other small things. Pretty much through for the day in the garage. Will have to take the car for a test run though. Figured if you were in Kingman I'd see if I could help.
If you haven't got it timed yet, as was discussed earlier, bump the engine over with no.1 plug out and your finger over the hole. When you start to feel your finger get blown off the hole, stop and as long as you didn't overshoot it, rotate the engine a little more clockwise till you are at the engines factory initial timing setting. A lot of people would say 0, but it will be retarded from where it should be and possibly harder to start. At this point you can install the distributor (or at least confirm it's in correctly), making sure the rotor points at where no.1 would be with the distributor fully seated. By the way, the engine doesn't care where you put no.1 as long as the rotor aligns with the right post at the right time and the firing order is correct. It's only done a certain way to standardize things and avoid confusion. You can take a running engine pull all the wires off the cap, move them over 1 or more spaces and as long as there is enough movement in the housing and you haven't changed the sequence of the wires you can time it back to where it was originally by rotating the distributor. Hope this helps.
With the distributor pointing at #1 and the #1 cylinder at tdc, the balancer showed the timing to be 17' off. There was also a whole lot lot of free play when turning the crank back and forth and watching the distributor.
The play you described is probably from slack in the timing chain, which is common in a motor with a lot of miles on it. If it seems really excessive, then it could be that you have a nylon timing gear that's come apart. Either way you should probably put a new chain on it before you stick it in the Edsel.
Have you put a timing light on it? The "1" on the cap really doesn't mean anything. As long as the rotor is pointing at the spot where the #1 wire is then it will work. Put the light on it and set it about 6-8 degrees advanced and lock it down. If you can't get it there, shift the wires over one post and I bet it will work. Good luck.
Did you know you can remove the Fuel Pump on the FE and check the chain? Ya, it's that simple. You can actually touch the teeth on the cam gear to see if they are falling off (the plastic ones). You can use a dental mirror to take a look if you like. Here is the other thing to do. Turn the Crank pulley Clockwise, then back to make slack in the chain till the Rotor wants to turn again. If the chain will touch the inside of the Cover it's used up. Some slack is OK but not enough to touch the cover. The Wizzard
Pist-N: -My dad showed me that trick, it kind of reminded me of getting my prostate checked. I took it apart today it had not jumped, but had a lot of slack in the chain, you could move the loose side back and forth an inch or more but it didn't seem to have hit the cover. The gears were steel replacement ones and had a whole lot of wear on them. The odd thing is the rest of the engine looks really fresh. The water passages in the block are silvery and not rusted at all, and the oil pan and the front cover were just slightly gold tinted, not sludged up at all. We'll put it togther on Sunday and see what happens.
If your Ford is 180 out, you can use a plymouth rotor button. But it's easier to set it where it's supposed to be....... Fig "E"
Take a look at this post: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=378541 Especially Road Runner's post. (#3)
Sorry to have disappeared, I hate when people start a discussion or ask a question and then go poof, so we don't know how it turned out... We replaced the timing chain. It was really worn and had a lot of slack in it. It had not jumped a full tooth however. We put the distributor and the wires back where they should be and it started right up. It ran better, but still not how it should be. It had an irregular miss. The points were gapped correctly but were very worn and were sticking together. We changed those and the miss was gone. Then we found it would idle well, work under hard throttle well but surge and sputter at cruise. I found the carburetor had a huge vacuum leak at the base since the current carb didn't really fit the adapter it was mounted on. I haven't put it back on yet with the right gaskets but am hoping for the best. It has a 4bbl manifold with an adapter running a small 2bbl carb. The linkage is also rigged up so that the throttle could not possibly open more than half way. Once I verify that the motor is working well (It sounds good, but I still need to check the compression and oil pressure) and suitable to go in the Edsel, I'll put on a 670 Holley Street Avenger I can get a deal on.
Any FE Ford I've had apart has had steel gears, from the factory. I've had a few "virgins" apart. I've also seen some very loose chains and worn gears that ran just fine for a driver. Most of the wear on a chain set happens early on. The 180* out thing is very common and I still do it once in a while. I've the distributor dropped in one tooth off before and gotten through that fun. It looks like you're chipping away at your problems and should have it sorted out soon. The compression check is always a good place to start before you get in too deep. Bob
I did almost the exact same engine and tranny swap in my 1958 Edsel Ranger its an easy swap except for you well need to swap out the tail shaft housing on the tranny to a car type (the truck uses a bolt in shaft) and you well need to modify the drive line (I think I had mine made longer). You well also have to rework the tranny cross member (I wish had had taken a few pictures of mine , but was trying to make B/P) So you can keep the stock cross member and retain your E-Brake assembly , you well need to cut out parts of the cross member to clear the C-6 pan , we cut center section toward the front top and the rear toward the bottom (Of the CM) then fit a steel plate across the hole and welded it in to strengthen it back up ( don't forget to brace the CM before welding in the plate so it wont warp). Figuring out the cross member was the hardest part of the job. Good luck and happy Edseling. edsel
A engine dont care where the dizzy roror is pointing. Drop a dizzy in any position. Turn the engine until number one piston is at the top with both valves closed. Look to see where the rotor is pointing. put number one plug wire there and it will work perfectly. It dont have to be where the factory had it originally. I put a high rise intake on a small block chev and it was easier to have the rotor 180 degrees off so as to have the vacuum advance turned where it was not hitting the manifold runner. Old Wolf
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