Shipping our Rods out of the Country (not me)

I have recently put two vehicles up on ebay. On both instances I refused any bids from overseas. For two reasons... One. There are so many horror stories regarding scams from overseas. Two. I just don't believe we should be sending our old iron out of the country.

As we all know. It is getting harder and harder to find anything worth working on here in the states. I realize I don't own these cars and it's the sellers choice to do want they want with their own possessions. But my feeling is these cars were built here and should stay here for our new generations to enjoy.

This subject is not to put down any Hambers in other countries that build and own the American steel. Many times these cars were shipped over to their countries in the days they were built. But I just can't approve of shipping any complete or partially complete car now. Pieces parts are one thing but complete cars, I feel is another. I am all for sending parts to help another Hamber in another country who can't find any part to finish their car. I guess, Some could say I am greedy.. There are more cars here in the states than we can shake a stick at.

My point here is.... Then tell my son who works full time, owns his own home, and wants an old rod but also understands in order to find one he would have to give his left nut. He, and I'm sure many young hambers here, would love to have the money and opportunity to buy the cars that are making the trip to other countries It's just beginning I'm afraid. This subject is not to put up any divided walls. I just want our generations to have the same opportunities as we had. PJ.

 

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As we all know. It is getting harder and harder to find anything worth working on here in the states.....


.....There are more cars here in the states than we can shake a stick at.



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Just a little contradiction there

I understand fully why you don't want to be scammed on the sale of your car. I just think that you may be going a little overboard by hoping that nobody else will send theirs away.

Besides, the US economy is so f*cked at the moment, you guys need to make as many exports as possible.

(Artiki would like to clarify that the last statement was intended to be humourous and no offence was meant. Especially to any Republicans )

 

Just because a car is sold overseas doesn't mean it's lost for all eternity to americans. Just as we non-americans can locate american rodding material thru the internet, it's just as easy for americans to find it in europe or japan.
I know quite a few swedish-built rods that's been sold to americans, and a larger number of 50's classics and muscle cars have returned as well.

A lot of cars have been sold (many times vehicles in a condition that made it more or less unsellable) to auto enthusiasts abroad, restored to like-new condition, and then bought back to the states for a price far below the U.S. market value.

Also, shipping a car across the atlantic can sometimes be cheaper than sending it over the continental U.S.

 

I see your point but I'm afraid I can't agree, respectfully. I honestly feel the very few cars that make it overseas are taking away any opportunities for us here. I too want to build my own rod some day (as soon as I can weld!) and I just can't see that you sending 1 or 2 cars over would make a difference.

There are SO many cars to be had here in the U.S, and besides you are also closing yourself off from some serious profit from someone who wants your car a lot. Maybe there is a guy in Japan, Sweden, Germany just like you who works his arse off, does everything he can to make an extra buck to afford that dream car. Maybe you have the car he has always dreamed of.. wouldn't it feel good to help someone like that out? Just a thought I guess...

My final point would be that if it's ok to send the parts over, why not the parts all bolted together into a car? Just think.. I'm a guy in Japan, and I buy everything you have ever sold on Ebay, once piece at a time (you know like the Johnny Cash song!) and build a car with it. Would you feel the same?

I'm not trying to dog you, just offering up an opinion on the other side. The bottom line is, it's your stuff to do what you want with, and nobody can tell you what to do either way.

Lata!

E

 

I sold my coupe to a guy from Germany after swearing I'd not send it overseas. He was the most enthusiastic person who expressed interest in it and physically brought me cash. I think it's awesome to see other cultures embracing ours and I have no problem with it.

Look at Baumi's pictures

 

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As we all know. It is getting harder and harder to find anything worth working on here in the states.....
.....There are more cars here in the states than we can shake a stick at.


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Artiki, No offense what so ever
I really think the cost of the cars are really the issue here. Some people from other countries are able to afford the US market value of the car plus the enormous shipping costs. Usually around $2000-3000.
I just wonder how many Hambers who could afford this.
Take a look at Tucks Truck(in the classifieds and now on ebay. This vehicle is a work of art and an inspiration of craftsmanship. He has had it for sale here for a while at a reasonable market price and I'm sure many guys and gals here would love to have it.I would. But whats happening is they can't afford it and what you will have is someone in the states bidding on something like this for others out of the country who can pay these enormous moving and market costs. Another rod gone. I really don't think many cars make the return trip. Especially when a similar car can be had here without the shipping cost attached.
I would just prefer to see someone in the states get them.

 

Although I applaud your principals, I think you need to rethink your thinking. Shouldn't we be incouraging/helping our fellow rodders across the pond? The kid over there that's been saving every nickel he makes working at a McDonalds and dreaming of owning a hot rod, shouldn't he have the same opportuity? Sure, some of these cars are bought strickly for profit (I'm sure they're resold for a much greater price there than what we sell them for here) but how do you control that?
Also, wouldn't the same be true for Canada or South America? Not exactly overseas but still out of the country.
If I had my car for sale for 15K and some overseas buyer offers me 20K?.......hmmmm, what could another 5 grand buy me?
Stand by your convictions, I respect that, but don't expect the line behind you to be very long.

 

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Just think.. I'm a guy in Japan, and I buy everything you have ever sold on Ebay, once piece at a time (you know like the Johnny Cash song!) and build a car with it. Would you feel the same?


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I admire and applaud all the men and woman overseas who find an old rust piece of metal and find parts to make their dream car by either making or buying parts to assemble it. Many here would have given up long ago or realized the work and money and decided that wasn't their priority in life.
My thoughts are of.. the finished or semi finished cars.
I am not expecting a line to follow me on this.. profit is not my priority. Right now if someone offered me 25,000 for my 50 chevy pickup from overseas. And a Hamber offered 18,500. You can bet your sweet bippy the Hamber will be driving it in Downtown,USA.

 

Petejoe, this is sort of steering OT, but your topic just begs for it.

Isolationist that think in terms of US and THEM are one of the major roadblocks to a decent global society.

If I follow your train of thinking, I won't sell anything to anyone outside of Texas, no, outside of Houston. We live in a swampy, humid area and all our old cars are slightly rusty, so we need to hold on to what we can get.

But....

I want a Ferrari.

And despite the piles of money laying around in this town, there isn't a very good Ferrari market. So, I've found that there are some other areas that DO have a good Ferrari market, and THEY want my '40 Fords and Model As.

Unfortunately they think it would be a crying shame to allow a brutal American, a Texan even, like that cretin W. Bush, to be allowed to remove some of the precious red cars from their city.

I'm stuck with too much Ford and not enough Ferrari, while those other guys are frustrated by this situation too.

Sorta like the Monkey Trap, you know, beans in a coconut shell with a small hole? Monkey reaches in the shell to grab the beans, can't get his fist out of the hole. Refuses to let go and is captured by the trappers?

That's greed. That's US vs THEM. That's Isolationism. You've GOT to see the big picture.

 

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That's US vs THEM. That's Isolationism. You've GOT to see the big picture.


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Moderbeat, Your point is well stated and is a very good point. Your concern with the issue of.. What is important and needs to be improved for the good of the world as a whole is an admirable concern.
But the related stories of cars being sold inside of one state and outside of one state, I feel, doesnt relate.
I am talking of cars which were made in the states and Canada.
I really don't want this subject to get into the global economy issues. I am just stating my feelings about sending our cars to areas that make them inaccessible to our new Hamb generations.

 

I too would not want to make our HAMBers from other countries feel bad so please don't take offense. HAMBers and those like them are a special breed and generally do not do things for the cash but for the joy of cars. I find that admirable in anyone, from anywhere.

But I agree in spirit with PJ. I saw this happen with Harleys and it was just sickening. There was a bike shop I used to go to in the mid to late 80's that went from die hard Harley fans that had plenty of project bikes and parts for all who were seriously interested in building (much like the HAMB), to being greedy bastards who sold most of there stock to a couple of rich guys from Europe and nearly the whole shop was loaded on train cars and off it went. And I'm talking about easily a couple of hundred bikes in various conditions. And I know this type of thing happened all over the country.

Now keep in mind that we are still our own worst enemy in this. The fault lies with Americans because as a people we are so freakin' greedy for the almighty dollar that we cause demand and prices to go up all by ourselves. Especially when we create a 'fad' like Harleys or (forgive me) 'rat rods'. Then every swinging dick wants one for about two years, driving the prices through the roof. Trouble is, they never seem to come back down to their previous levels again because the morons who bought in because it was 'cool' have so much over-invested that they won't let there stuff go at a reasonable rate again.

I know it seems a bit unfair but I would still like to see the preponderance of American iron stay here if possible.

 

First of all, I think the few cars being sold overseas are a drop in a bucket. If you are so concerned about the old tin being around for future generations, you should start a rescue mission for abandoned cars here in the US. There are probably dozens of cars crushed, butchered or otherwise mutilated for every car sold overseas.

The second thought: Do you really think because somebody is on the HAMB means they can't afford to buy decent cars? There are a lot of people here that have spent tons of money on their cars. Why should the average foreigner have more financial means than the average american. This is the richest country on earth after all, right?

third thought: Somebody willing to go through the hassle of importing a car from a foreign country has to show much more comittment (and money). Those people are usually total car nuts who treasure their new vehicles.

Last thought: Growing up in a small town in Switzerland I remember the exitement of seeing an american car on the roads. I used to check out Mustangs and Gremlins and the like and think they were just the coolest cars ever (I was probably 10 at that time and I have since slightly changed my taste in automobiles). Every traditional car that makes its way overseas will be much more of an inspiration to a future generation than if it stayed here.

That said I can respect your standpoint.

 

Good point Mike, from someone's first memories of our cars outside of the US, it's good to hear from those who haven't grown up here. No argument from me on the popularity and dedication from those who buy and see these American cars.
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you should start a rescue mission for abandoned cars here in the US. There are probably dozens of cars crushed, butchered or otherwise mutilated for every car sold overseas.

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You will never see any old pre- 60's Ford going to the crusher. At least not around my area.
Now if there are cars being mutlated in our junk and scrap yards that these rich people in other countries would like and we are not interested in. Then by all means, fill all the railroad cars up with them and ship them out.
I havent seen any 1927 thru 1960 Fords in the crusher lately.
Yes, there may be alot of rich Hambers here who can afford any car they desire. But you have seen the average age of us Hambers on the poll. My bet is, Most of us don't make over 30,000 a year. We can't compete with those from out of the country who buy and sell these cars for profit.

 

So the enormous export of old American cars is driving up prices and making everything scarce?

You never wanted the used muscle cars when we bought them in 1975.
You didn't like the 50's full size Chrysler convertibles when we bought those in 1980.
Noone wanted flathead speed equipmnet, and old hot rod parts in 1985.

Now you realize they are cool and want them back, boo hoo.
At the end of the day, money talks, if you're not selling, the American guy you sold to will.

Well if we can’t buy your old rusty crap we won’t sell you back any restored, show winning cars either!

 

You shouldn't be worrying about any old cars going abroad. With the number of Canadian cars that have gone south to the US, the numbers should have evened out. Canadian made cars were exported around the world, to Aus and NZ in particular. Our Model T's had 2 opening doors on the roadsters because the export models required rite hand drive and the opposite door to open. Sending cars out of Canada is nothing new. Our 36 chevs built in Regina, Saskatchewan didn't have much wood in them, makes them kind of desirable. I really don't like our cars going to the US but there just isn't enuff of a market here for them. Nutz

 

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I really don't like our cars going to the US but there just isn't enuff of a market here for them.

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In my way of thinking. Canada and the US are the same.
We have created these cars by the innovators of long ago.
I sold a Blazer to a Canadian two years ago.
I'm sure that the All the US automakers sold cars out of the country when they were manufactured. After-all, their business is to make a profit.
To me this is a hobby, something that I love, I, like everyone else, wants to get as much profit as I can out of a vehicle. But you see, the difference here is... I would rather have a young American or Canadian use my car or truck as their dream.
After thinking about this... It has been expressed many times by the owners who are selling cars here on the Hamb.
There hopes are to sell it to another Hamber who enjoys it as much as themselves. I wish I could sell mine the same way. In fact, I would prefer to have some young gearhead I know, have it anyday. I have grown to know and like and respect alot of Hambers from foriegn countries. To me they are like family. They share the same love and passion as I.
I may consider selling a vehicle to them. That's only because I know their heart. Not a profitable greedy bone in their body.

 

I was just thinking about all the Houston area metal bodied '34 Fords that I know about.

Three of them were originally built in the US.
One is from South Africa.
One is from Brazil.
One was pieced together from some US and some Euro parts, but the majority of it was originally built in England. There are some differences from the US built cars.
One more came from Argentina.

These locations weren't where they were restored or rodded...it's where Ford built them.

 

I continually run into Swedes, Germans, and others at the big shows, always at flathead speed or early Ford booths. These people all know LOTS of U.S. hotrod history and tech and are always looking for more information as well as the parts. I think the overseas trad rodders have demonstrated lots of good taste and fine craftsmanship on old Fords, and are an admirable lot.
Also, they are IMHO preserving the iron better than we are--US rodding is 99% strretrodders, and many of their mods permanently destroy the cars used in my book
I have a stored 5 window, and what do you think would happen if I sold it here?? Next time I saw it, it would have an interior like a Toyota, all body detail trimmed off to make it look like a fiberglass body, an off pink/off turqoise paint job, and a heavy helping of NASTY mail order detail parts.
Feh. Those Norwegians won't butcher it.

 

Having grown up in a foreign country (Australia), and been around ol cars all my life, I would say that opening statement is a bit greedy. In Australia, for example, old iron is virtually nonexistant. I have met, and know of, tonnes of Aussie hot rodders who have dragged home a rusty piece of shit from the middle of the bush and had to fabricate like 70% of the car to get it to resemble anything remotely close to a car. We didnt even get half the cool cars that were in america in the ol days. Now, not that not having the cars or even doing a tonne of work to turn them into a car offends me, it is seeing all the cars in the junkyards, on farms, in barns etc in America, just sitting their, waiting to be had, and then have someone say, that no one else should have them??? This just feels a little odd to me. Hope no one is offended by my comments, just expressing a different opinion.

 

...and the first all steel '32 Ford I was every up close and personal with was a very rare '32 Ute that was imported from Austrailia to Austin, Texas. The new owner spotted it in coverage of a swap meet in an Australian Street Rod magazine. He tracked down the owner, bought the car, paid a mint to have the body shipped over, and has been piecing it together over the last 20 years.

Couldn't find it here, had to import it.

 

To my thinking you should share and share alike. whether its cars or parts. Over the pond in England we have a small scene and general the only way we can build Rods is by importing the cars and parts from the states in the first place which gets bloody expencive. So its only the true hot rodders that normaly bother.
Take myself for example i work 24/7. Call me sad but all my money goes on my cars getting all my parts from the states. With out that in wou ldnt have a life.
What about all these french flathead blocks That us limeys found out about. Where have their all been shipped to....... the U.S. We where getting them for 500 bucks (not that there are any left over here now) and companys in the U.S are selling them for 4x times that.
But i'm not bitter, because its share and share alike.

 

Worry more about the North American jobs that are being shipped overseas.





When YOUR job is being done in some Shit Hole country,
where they don't give a Fuck about pollution or Human Rights,
you'll be happy to sell your car to ANYONE with a fist full of cash.

 

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I'm with you petejoe. It's getting harder and harder to find good projects, every one sent away is one less you might be able to pick up down the street. The average guy isn't about to ship a car back to the US from wherever...

 

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I sold my coupe to a guy from Germany after swearing I'd not send it overseas. He was the most enthusiastic person who expressed interest in it and physically brought me cash. I think it's awesome to see other cultures embracing ours and I have no problem with it.

Look at Baumi's pictures

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Sorry Mike, these are not my pics, it´s Mike Lange "flatordead" from the Hot Heads East who´s posted them.
But anyway the pics are great!

As for shipping cars out of the country:
I´ve never brought a car from the US to Europe by myself, but a couple of buddies have.
Most of them have bought their cars at the Pomona swap meets because the L.A. harbor is not that far away and it´s pretty easy to ship cars from there. All of them still own the cars they imported to Europe and most of them were beaters when they came here. Now most of them are niceley built customs or are just being built.
I understand what you mean letting go a piece of history out of the country. But they are appriciated and loved over here at least as much as in the states.

In my eyes they are also a piece of my history.
As I´ve got my 62 Impala coupe in 1997 my grandpa( now 90years old)looked at my car, went away and came back with an old pic.
It showed my grandpa and his friend at a gas station in front of a 62 Impala acting cool for the photo. None of them could have afforded a car like that back then since is was twice as expensive as a Mercedes. For him it was the car everyone wanted to have but noone could.
A dream came true for him when I gave my grandparents a ride for their 60th wedding anniversary.

Btw, I can´t believe that there´s some kind of sell out going on.
Most hot rods I´ve seen in Europe have never been on american ground. They were either built at home using Swedish stamped frame rails and English made glassbodys or were brought from England or Sweden as half finished projects or started life as european built fords.The Rest was ordered at jegs , speedway or summit.

Those guys save their hard earned money for years and decades because they have this dream of owning a Hot rod. They stuff a bunch money ( which could easily buy them a new BMW) in cars knowing they´ll be plainly illegal to drive on the road once they are completed.

My dream was to build a chopped and channeled Model A sedan with a nice 283 in it. Maybe nothing "special" from your point of view but that´ll be around 20000 to 25000 Euros( 24000-30000$) Just ask some European rodders what they have in their cars, even in glass bodied cars.

I´m pretty sure there won´t be a sell out of old cars in the states, in Germany only very few people are into old american iron and even less could afford a hot rod.

Maybe I´m completely wrong and I´m the only one who can´t afford one

 

I would be happy to sell my Fairlane to any overseas HAMBers.

 

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I am just stating my feelings about sending our cars to areas that make them inaccessible to our new Hamb generations.

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I guess you meant to say " inaccessible to our new red-blooded AMERICAN Hamb generations"

Son, that's some messed up logic. There are a LOT of very-cool, knowlegeable, talented, NON-american HAMB members who are building way better nostalgia rods & customs than the majority of fools here in the states and the small percentage of cars LOST to overseas rodders is like piss in the ocean - makes no difference what-so-ever.

Personally, I think it is absolutely awesome that so many countries have a good base of rodders building very traditional, very cool, good 'ol early american style rods.

What better amassary to the world could we possibly come up with to spread to others a feel for what Americans are REALLY about - Not the b.s. they see in the media? (which, by the way, usually sounds more along the lines of your "love us, but let us keep all the good shit" post).

 

I agree with petejoe for the most part. I went to Pomona to sell my first car a 67 mustang years ago, A Japanese man made me an offer on the car I was about to accept it then I noticed the very large bouncer looking guy a few feet behind him with a large briefcase in his hand. I asked what he was going to do with the car and he said he was shipping it to Japan,I didn't sell it to him. But he ended up buying about 4-5 mustangs that day anyways.

Two months ago I went back to pomona to sell my 52 f-1, a sixty year old lady made a good offer on the truck but it was real early in the day so I told her to come back. Then a British guy came by and made a better offer, again it was going to be shipped over seas. I ended up selling it to the older lady two weaks later because I could tell she really wanted the truck and would take care of it. She drove seven hours to come pick it up!

I guess my point is I really don't like our cars going over seas. I don't get pissed if they do I just would rather not partisapate in it. And there is something to be said about seeing the look in someones eyes when there about to get a car they really want, it's kind of cool.

 

You dont REALLY think our economy sucks? If so, you are wrong.

 

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The average guy isn't about to ship a car back to the US from wherever...

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A car might not get shipped back, but another one might get shipped to the States.

Remember, money talks.

A car might be more atractive to a foreign buyer than an American buyer. On the other hand, a foreign car might be an atractive deal to an American, and he'll import it.

I've heard about lots and lots of cars being sent to the States. When our dollar was lower, it looked like all our cars were going to the States. I don't think you'll run out of cars, but I respect you point of view.

What I hate is seeing cheap part on Ebay with "ships to U.S. only". Are these people scared of being screwed by the bad foreigner, for 30$ ???. I'm 100% certain that a lot more Americans get screwed by other Americans than by foreigners. How many times have we seen people on the H.A.M.B. having troubles with other Americans.

In fact, there are people form other countries getting screwed by Americans on Ebay

There are also Canadians being screwed by people in Nigeria. It's not an us vs them world. With that said, I'm not trying to put down americans. It just sucks that I couldn't buy parts on Ebay, even though my bank F***ing OWNS an american bank!

I say buyers beware... and sellers beware too...

 

I don't think anything is really lost--old cars and the trade in them are truly international. Next time one of our overseas rods is sold, it could just as likely come back here, wander off to New Zealand, or whatever...
I also suspect most cars will end up as most valuable in their original home.