Hi, It says that I haven't posted in a while and that I ought to ask a question, so.... I have this old 53 Dodge and I've been going along with it for about a year now, learning different things like wiring, cooling systems, brakes, steering and the like. Well, now I'm starting to think that I need to turn my attention to the body. There are areas with surface rust and some areas of what I'd call heavy surface rust where there is some pitting of the steel. I want to start sanding on this thing but I don't know what to use. Should I get an electric D/A sander? I don't have a good compressor for air tools. How about an angle grinder with sanding disks? Also, once I start this process am I out of commission on driving it around? Thanks Scott
No, you can still drive it around if you primer it...unless you cut a whole fender off... That's the way we used to do it back in the '60's...work and drive... If it's light surface rust, sand it with 80 grit and seal it (use an epoxy sealer) after you take it to bare metal...do your bondo over the top of the sealer...an epoxy sealer is waterproof --rattle car primer is NOT...!!! Once you've done the bondo and smoothed it, seal it again, then primer it...use the same brand of primer... As for pitting, if it's real bad, you'll need to cut it out...if it's not, same as above... Level the bodywork to the surface and sand the whole area around it...best bet is to remove all the paint and seal the whole car...then primer...ready it for painting... Air tools are good IF your compressor can keep up...electric is OK for removing old paint...angle grinder with discs is OK too...just don't get carried away with 20 grit or 36 grit...it'll dig big time into the metal...not what you want...use 80 grit and go from there... R-
get yourself a D A sander with some 80 grit for the rough spots and some 220 for the scratches and nicks in the paint go back over the 80 spots with 220 and your ready for primer probably be a good idea to use etching primer on the spots youve taken down to bare metal and then hit it with some high build urethane primer block it all back down with 220 and reprime as many times as it takes to level everything back out
If you are going to do the bodywork you are going to need a compressor sooner or later. May want to pick up a used one if funds are tight or is it a matter of garage space? I am by no means a bodyman but I would not use a right angle grinder to remove paint, but you can use it to grind down pitted steel and cut out rusted areas. Good luck with the project.
I use a "stripper" disc they are relatively low speed, they look like a hard sponge and come in different flavors, some are more aggrerssive and last longer than others depending on the color of the disc. they will remove the paint filler and anything else but wont harm or warp the metal. Find a body/paint supply they can steer you in the right direction.
Longboard is really all you need, and you can drive it, BUT it may have some issues after you paint it, like crap in the pain, and moisture soaked into the primer
Do yourself a favor and attack it one or two panels at a time, depending on severity of repair on the panels. Many guys immediately sand the whole car down to nothing and then see a mountain of labor and the car sits forever. Until they sell it. Don't be that guy. You're better off starting with easy panels and gaining skill/confidence, so when you uncover the inevitable hideous mess, it won't stop ya cold. Once the whole car's in primer, you'll do a weekend of edging and jambing with finish color. Then it's time to evaluate your success and desire thus far, and either paint it yourself or hire the job. Good luck!
This sounds pretty reasonable to me. I was thinking about starting with the hood. It's completely solid and it needs to have a few holes welded shut, so I can learn the welding then too. I'm not afraid to fail once, or to have to have a 'do over' but I don't want it to be on a whole car. If it were just a panel or two it would be easier to accept. So, it sounds like I can get by with electric tools, from a DA, to an angle grinder to a 'long board'. What's a longboard? Also, what's 'edging and jambing'? is that where you paint the door, trunk jambs and inside edges separately before the main part of the car is done? Thanks for the help so far. I'm gaining confidence already. Scott
Never sand anything without a sanding block, a longboard it just a long sanding block, one of the best tools to get stuff perfect Also if you can see/feel flaws, they WILL show up in paint so remember that
For removal, I LOVE those 3M brown wheels, hell, I don't even know what they're called, someone help me out... Sorta fibrous, but the fibers have a thick hard coating on them. They work fast and well at eatting off rust and paint and crap, and will last a while so long as you keep them away from sharp edges. I get 'em at Wal-Mart for like 5 or 6 bucks a piece. They won't damage the metal and leave a good finish on the metal to work from. <b>EDIT:</b> <i> Yep, didn't see your post but those are what I"m talking about. AWESOME! I actually REALLY like the finish they put on metal, especially aluminum, gives a nice brushed look</I>
If you're going to start 1 panel at a time, the hood is not the best place to start out. Especially if you're learning to weld to. The hood and the roof are the longest, panels on most cars and usually the most flexible. It has weak spots that an inexperienced body man will turn into long low wavy seasick mess. Don't ask me how I know!! If I were you, I would start on the quarter panels and work my way forward. By the time you get the fenders done you'll be have more of a feel to be able to tackle those long panels. As far as stripping, the stripping pads mentioned earlier are good for doing one panel at a time. They don't warp the metal as long as you don't stay in one spot to long. The long board mentioned is a very good idea for doing your body work!! If not you will get that seasickness of wavy body. Epoxy sealer is the only way to go for bare metal!
i second this. they work great, and since they are not solid they don't seem to create as much heat. this means less warping of the panel.
So it looks like I'm going to go buy an angle grinder and some of those 'spongy looking' disks. I thought that might be a good way to go, just wanted to be sure. Starting on the hood might not be a good idea when you put it that way. I can start in the back and work forward. What about the real tight spots and along seams? will a wheel on a grinder get in there ok? I'm worried about trying to get into some of the tight spots and taking too long and building up heat. Scott
For tight spots, I always hang on to one thats already pretty well worn out. The smaller diameter makes it easier to get into spots. With some creativity, you'll be able to get almost everywhere with it, for little body creases and such I end up swapping over to a wire brush, but don't like it nearly as much.
Hand sand the "light" surface rust areas and use a d/a sander on the "heavier" areas.use a primer on the areas that you sand when you are done and you will be ready to star driving. hope this helps.
This is how I do it, and I hate the wire brush!!! Nothing like little wires flying at you at 15,000 rpm. They do work though. They also make the stripper disks threaded so you can use and electric grinder. I have a few for my makita 4 1/2 electric. I think they even make them for a 7 1/2. Also, forgot to mention earlier, if you have to use bondo on anything, hit it with some 36 grit first for the best adhesion over metal, or 80 grit over epoxy primer.
Hi Guys, Since I teach Collision Repair at a local community college, I thought I'd better answer a few questions. The little pads you guys are referring to are 3M's "Scotch Brite" discs. They come in different grits with brown for heavy scale and rust removal. The red are for general cleanup and finally, grey which are considerably finer. Another really neat 3M product is the "Strip Clean" discs. these are the ones most commonly referred to as "Hamburger Patties". They too come in different grits and colors with black being the more coarse and purple more fine, forgive me if I have that backwards.... too many paint fumes over the last 30 years. These are 6" in diameter and require there own system of locking onto whatever grinder you're using with them. I purchase those from my friend Ken Sakimoto at "Sunchaser Tools". He's here in Pasadena/Monrovia ? but you can find him on line. Hope this helps, I am always happy to answer any Paint /Body questions you fellas might have. See you in class. - Larry
tinknocker86, Thanks for that, that's some really good info, getting started on some heavy bodywork on the Galaxie (and for that matter my A). I wasn't aware of various agressiveness, I love those brown ones so much I keep 'em "in stock" in my basement. I'm glad to hear they make a variety. I think I've actually seen the other product you mentioned at Wal-Mart as well (hey, don't knock me. The one here at least actually carries a nice selection of 3M products for 1/2 of what they are at the box autoparts stores, all the mom+pops were long gone before I got into this hobby ). I usually chuck them into either a 2-handled drill for general use, and a die grinder or my right-angle drill for smaller areas. Those are the only tools I got that can accept 'em. 3M, more often that not, makes some great items worth the premium. Unless it's Super 33, keep your electrical tape away from me!
Save up and get a compressor! Yes, the electric tools will help out temporarily, but if you are serious about doing bodywork, you'll need to be able to spray good paint, too....and good paint is usually the kind you have to mix and shoot out of a gun. Spray bombs. in general, are poor quality. Real epoxy primer needs to be mixed 1/2 and 1/2, or with a hardener to be good stuff. There are 'so called' epoxies in spray cans, but most are "epoxy reinforced", not real epoxy. There are some spray can primers that you actually press a button to break open a hardener inside the can, and these are more like the real thing. In the end, a compressor will become an invaluable part of your tool set! Fill tires, clean out carbs, impact stubborn bolts, and the variety of air tools you can buy!!!!!!! WOW!
Chopolds, Thanks for the reply. Yes, a compressor is on my list. I just have such a lack of space that I'm still trying to figure out where it is all going to go. I'm planning on getting a little welder soon also, which takes up more space. I've got a little two car garage for now. Guess I'll just have to clean it out some more. A compressor is definitely in my future but just not now, and I want to get started now. By the way, when you say that epoxy has to be mixed '1/2 and 1/2' what does that mean? It's 1/2 epoxy primer and 1/2 what? Thanks for all the help guys. Scott
What chopolds means is it is 1 part epoxy to 1 part activator. 1/2 and 1/2. I know about cramped. I have an air compressor, 2 drill presses, belt sander, standin bench grinder, 2 full sise tool boxes, a 36 chevy truck cab, my ot motorcycle, and 2 shelves and a work bench. IN A 1 CAR GARAGE, that I still paint motorcycles out of. You just have to lay dow the law to the wife, the garage is for cars and tools, not storage!!hahaha
Depends on the brand...PPG's epoxy sealer ( I use DP50) mixes 2 to one...meaning two parts sealer and one equal part catalyst...PPG's primer mixes the same way (I use NCP 250)...it's a good hi-build primer...in other words it hides scratches well once you sand it... If you want to see it in action (or in pix) check out my build: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=329070&highlight=the+best+55+caddy+build R- OH BTW...since no one mentioned this...when and if you get a good compressor, make sure you buy a mask...DO NOT spray catalyzed sealer or primer without it... R-
If I am going to be doing the car panel by panel or maybe two at a time but I don't have a compressor and gun to spray the epoxy would the recommended approach be to use the epoxy spray cans with the catalyst in it that someone mentioned? The one that you have to break open the catalyst before you start spraying. Does anyone have a brand that has the catalyst separate in the can? Thanks for educating a novice. Scott
http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_2_part_aerosol.cfm Here's a link to that type of primer, don't know if there are others, though.
The brown discs are 3M 36 grit Scotchbright Bristle discs. I use one with a 5/8 arbor on a 4 1/2" electric angle grinder. The discs like speed and are rated to 12000rpm. They will not tolerate low speeds or heavy pressure. They were designed to remove paint from aircraft skins without removing metal. Green discs are too soft for auto paint on steel and burn up quickly. I used brown discs to strip my 47 to bare metal and they worked faster, cleaner, and did a better quality job than anything I have ever tried. The yellow discs are quite fine and are used by pool guys to clean scale from tiles. This is one of the best working tools I have seen in a long time and highly recommend trying them out.
Spend about $350 on a new compressor, or find the equivalent used. It'll be a horizontal tank about 20 gallons with wheels on one end, and it'll run on household current. Plenty of compressor for what you're doing. But not optional. $60 spray guy will do the job. good luck
Listen to shifty, its pretty tough to do a good job without a compressor. I wouldnt waste my time with rattle can crap. Id reccomend to do it once and do it right and be done with it. You dont want to take shortcuts and redo it again in 2 years do you. And the absolute best way to get the rust out of pits is a sand blaster, its the only thing ive found to get all the way to the bottom of the pits and leave as much metal as possible. I like to do my body work over metal, some like to over epoxy...i think its a bit of preferance. And if its only one paintjob on the car, id just sand it down with a DA with 80 grit on it and prime over that. Itll leave you alot better finish IMO.
Where do you get the ones with the 5/8 angle grinder arbor? That'd be the prime tool I got to use with them, I think it's max is 10000 RPM. Best damn tool I ever bought from Harbor Freight, outlasted my "good" one. <i>EDIT: Yes, you will certainly need a compressor. I have a 33 gallon, direct drive (read: noisy) Craftsman. Pro quality, no, but it has done everything I needed it for. 'bout $300. If you can tolerate the noise of a direct-drive, they're alot cheaper (I don't give a damn, the music's louder anyhow!). May not last as long, but I've had mine for a long time and use it frequently. Duty cycle is pretty strong on it. For another Franklin, a belt driven one with a smaller tank isn't hard to find. Also, I have another, belt compressor plumbed parallel to the Craftsman, it's an old CH 2-stage that is really quiet, I use it on those 3AM can't sleep must wrench nights and shut down my big one. Has about a 20 gallon tank, it was my Grandpa's and it's old as dirt, but works well. Parallel compressors were a cheap alternative, gets me 50 gallons storage and I can run both compressors at the same time and get some airflow. Now that I own my house though, I plan on getting a large 2-stage 240V one. The local classifieds paper always has lots of old good big ones for good prices. Got an extra 240V 20A outlet from the ex's tanning bed . Even if I don't use my existing compressors or they die, I'll plumb just the tanks in parallel, 50 gallons of tank plus 60 gallons equals alot of damn air!
Find a local guy to coach you or find a local Tech school with autobody to attend for a short bit. I like to see people learn, but I do not like to see people ruin things... it frustrates most people and discourages them from going further and fixing it. On the same token, if you dont screw up a bit you'll never learn.
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