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GM Desert Proving Grounds Mesa AZ

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by zellerware, Jun 19, 2009.

  1. zellerware
    Joined: Aug 15, 2007
    Posts: 128

    zellerware
    Member
    from dad's shop

    Wanted to share some parting thoughts on a GM icon.

    Well, an era has come to a close as GM closed its desert proving grounds which has been a staple in the blistering Arizona sun since 1952.

    I made my last sales call there today and I wondered around with my father looking at an empty nest of a once testing hotbed for General Motors.

    All but 6 employees are on to the new homogated version in Yuma. As I glanced at the empty service bays and cool down stations I felt some sadness with what the US car companies are going thru with the brutal economy.



    I envisioned the 55 year + history of this place and I could not help but think back in time to all the famous GM cars that rolled around the 5 mile oval. It seems like it all started right here-- The Corvette, Nomad, all the concept vehicles, Chevelle, Impala etc.. just to name a few.

    Thats not counting all the Buick, Pontiac, Olds, & Cadillac cars tested there, well you get my point.

    Most of the GM cars we have grown to love all were tested there at one time.

    Think of all the famous designers & engineers that worked there - Earl, Duntov, LaGassey and Gault.. all made their mark there..

    I was amazed at how big the place really is with all the test tracks contained inside the huge 5 mile oval..

    Kind of marked the end of a bygone era that just about all the Hambers have a passion for..

    Here are a couple of parting shots..

    If anyone out there has some great stories from a friend who worked there or some old photos please feel free to post..

    These are early 60's Firebird experimental short film pics which the film was featured in GM's "Motorama" and one last pic of the guard shack as I left this afternoon. :(
     

    Attached Files:

  2. James Maxwell
    Joined: May 6, 2006
    Posts: 549

    James Maxwell
    Member
    from So-Cal

    Maybe if GM would have kept "car guys" running things rather than women that used to design cereal boxes and all the damn bean counters, well, you know when the people leave at 5:00 and forget about "work" that was so different from the legends that stayed after 5 and kept it going, and then would go home and still think about "work," and with passion!

    Lets hope the new leaner version of GM once again kicks some butt.
     
  3. spiderdeville
    Joined: Jun 30, 2007
    Posts: 1,134

    spiderdeville
    Member
    from BOGOTA,NJ

    I know a lot of older gm retirees saying the girls ruined the place
     
  4. racerjohnson
    Joined: Oct 3, 2006
    Posts: 178

    racerjohnson
    Member
    from Fargo, ND

    Thanks for sharing. Hallowed ground for sure and it is sad. I hope they rent track time to individuals.

    I hope this thread doesn't lose focus. . .

    On that note;), allow me to theorize that computers and other testing devices doomed the test track, not girls or even non-gas-in-the-veins car company employees. The times they are a changin'. . .
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009

  5. FiddyFour
    Joined: Dec 31, 2004
    Posts: 9,024

    FiddyFour
    Member

    here here...

    thanks for sharing both the photos and the thoughts. end of an era for sure :(
     
  6. I wonder what will happen with the grounds?
     
  7. I spent 11 years in the old Buick/B-O-C/NAO Engineering facility in Flint,MI,and got out to the Desert Grounds just once. What's not being said is that GM has moved a LOT of their engineering to a facility in Mexico(didn't hear about that one,did ya?),where they're just lined up to buy vehicles and save the company-yeah,right.
    For whatever reason(probably my Eastern European heritage-like one eyebrow),I usually went on the cold-weather trips,like to Yellowknife,NWT;International Falls,MN;Grand Forks,ND;and Kapuskasing,Ontario.
    Sadly,it'll probably become a golf course;GM has no sense of preservation. Oh,this is spoken with 32+ years of experience,and 3+ years working for a GM supplier.
    I know this is not a political forum,and I won't turn it into such,so I'll stop now...
     
  8. Zookeeper
    Joined: Aug 30, 2006
    Posts: 1,042

    Zookeeper
    Member

    On a happier note, I lived in Phoenix, Scottsdale for a few years back in '80-'82. A freind of mine had a semi-crusty'23 C-cab flatbed with a BB chevy of unknown size. The motor had no casting numbers anywhere on it, and was supposedly a "mule" designed to test transmissions on a dyno at the GM test facility. It spent some time in a '56 Chevy street racer that ran 10's prior to my freind getting it, so God only knows what it would have run in the T pickup. I thought the real story was how in the hell it got off the proving grounds and into the hands of a street racer. Must've been some car guys in there somewhere...
     
  9. 63Compact
    Joined: Feb 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,178

    63Compact
    Member

    I work at the GM Proving Ground in Australia, so I'm sorry to hear about other facilities closing, I heard things where being moved to Mexico and also heard that Kapuskasing is closing too. It's bleak times in GM world and I say that as a Blue oval guy. Good luck to all involved. And I cant comment on the Girls thing!
     
  10. safari-wagon
    Joined: Jan 12, 2008
    Posts: 1,457

    safari-wagon
    Member

    The decision to move to Yuma was purely $$$, developers paid GM a LOT of cash for the property! They also bought when property values were at an all time high. (IMHO, it was pretty good timing by GM)

    Al K, The original plan was to buy a lot of cheap land in Mexico, but that turned into a circus, as the 1st place selected had less sunny days than Mesa did. The 2nd site turned out to be an old Indian burial ground, so that fell thru too. Add in the cartel wars, etc & Yuma was the right choice.

    I'm just glad to hear that most of the folks were able to re-lo to the new facility.
     
  11. bobjob55
    Joined: May 23, 2009
    Posts: 327

    bobjob55
    Member

    ...I herd from a friend that worked there,, that it was sold during the housing boom in az. to a developer,, that was going to put up tract homes... prime real estate..with building all around ,, sold for big bucks..land in yuma is cheep...
    now that house market is flat,, probably going to be "dozed" and than sit naked till housing gets better..and yes,, here in az. it will have a stinkin golf course...of course..of course...
     


  12. S-W;thanks for the update and correction. I can relate to the "circus" comment;it seems that when Stempel, Ruess and the other car guys were shown the door over the years,the whole atmosphere changed and it was sadly comical to observe. That mentality still exists where I work;it's all about getting lots of parts out the door and quality becomes a secondary issue-until it can be used to make the inspectors and the line workers look bad,and I speak from experience.
     
  13. Kustom Komet
    Joined: Jun 26, 2007
    Posts: 640

    Kustom Komet
    Member

    I live several miles away, and pass it periodically. I think the main reason for it's closing is the same reason that most of the old drag tracks closed down - societal encroachment.

    50 years ago, it was in the middle of exactly nowhere, maybe a few intrepid farmers out there but the rest was unspoiled desert as far as the eye could see. 20 years ago, there was still next to nothing out there, and it was going strong. But now, it is completely surrounded by injection molded neighborhoods and streets, with super wal-marts and other big box outlets steadily closing in.

    If your business is testing top secret cars that the public won't see for another four model years, the last thing you want is to have them living all around you. Remoteness is your stock in trade, and they lost their remoteness.

    -KK
     
  14. James Maxwell
    Joined: May 6, 2006
    Posts: 549

    James Maxwell
    Member
    from So-Cal

    The comments I made were as a general overview of GM not so much specifics of the AZ Proving Grounds.

    Regarding things not going so well for GM these days, the economy is one thing, the product is another.
     
  15. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,931

    squirrel
    Member

    I got to visit the Mesa facility in college on a field trip, fun stuff.

    I also saw a guy I know last weekend who worked there...he's living in Yuma now....
     
  16. Cody&Lauren Mohr
    Joined: Apr 2, 2009
    Posts: 211

    Cody&Lauren Mohr
    Member

    I drive past it every day on my way to work from Q.C. to Mesa. It's too sad to look at.
     
  17. all those gm retirees wouldn't have any thing to do with it now would they?
     
  18. Huntfamily53
    Joined: Jan 12, 2007
    Posts: 43

    Huntfamily53
    Member
    from AZ

    I hear that there are plans for a big vacation resort and resturants.
     
  19. Section 8
    Joined: Mar 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,050

    Section 8
    Member
    from AZ

    From a thread I started on this a couple of weeks ago:



    For a few months now, I've been hearing credible rumors of pits and trenches filled with 50's and 60's cars and engines being discovered as the former (as of today) GM proving grounds in Mesa AZ are being cleaned up to be made into a hotel and mall.

    I've heard of a barn find, but what about a trench find?





    Harley Earl in Mesa:

    [​IMG]

    (Come on, picture the Firebird 1 in Satin black with red steelies and wide whites!)

    Story:

    The last car has long since taken its last test lap, and most employees have already moved to a new facility in Yuma
    For the past few weeks, perhaps a half-dozen people have been packing for General Motors' final departure from Mesa, bringing a quiet end to an era when American automotive icons like Corvette, Firebird and Camaro had to do or die on a 5-mile test track in the brutal desert heat.
    Today, GM will quietly turn out the lights at its vast Desert Proving Ground in southeast Mesa, ending more than 56 years of operations there.
    The closure is only coincidental with the financial collapse that pushed GM last week to take the once-unthinkable step of declaring bankruptcy.
    Not only have times changed in the car-testing business, but urban sprawl has finally crept up to the Mesa site.
    What once was ideal land use for a 20th-century industry is no longer appropriate for the new century's aspirations.
    But, oh, what a tale the past century can tell.
    Roc Arnett remembers when the Proving Ground was shrouded in secrecy, hiding its operations behind barbed wire and tall earthen berms. It was a special thrill to spot a heavily disguised prototype out on the open road for testing.
    "I can remember . . . learning to drive, and it would be sport for us to find those future cars and their test cars going down U.S. 60," said Arnett, now president of the civic and business coalition that will be instrumental in planning the future of the site.
    "Back then, U.S. 60 was Main Street (in Mesa). As high-school kids, we'd follow those things - 'Is that going to be a Corvette?' 'Is that going to be an Impala?' "
    It could have been almost any vehicle GM developed over the past six decades, including some that never made it to market.
    There was the Firebird, a brainchild of legendary designer Harley Earl that first zoomed around the circular track in the mid-'50s. Propelled by a kerosene-powered turbine engine, it had a titanium body and a revolutionary suspension system that eliminated springs and shock absorbers.
    A generation later, there was the solar-powered Sunraycer, which set a world electric-car speed record of nearly 75 mph.
    Although those technologies never arrived in the showrooms, many of the improvements in GM vehicles first went through their paces in the hellish heat, dust and deliberately miserable driving conditions at the Proving Ground.
    Jack Sellers, a Chandler councilman, spent his entire professional career there, including almost 20 years as facilities manager, before retiring.
    "The facility played a much larger role in a lot of things that GM did than many people realize," Sellers said.
    One frequent early visitor was Zora Arkus-Duntov, a GM executive known as the "Father of the Corvette" because he advocated saving the now-legendary sports car when sales faltered in the mid-'50s.
    Most of the Proving Ground's work was mundane, such as seeing how brakes, tires and other parts would hold up in the heat. Sometimes, components wound up in other companies' products. The Mesa site helped develop transmissions for Rolls-Royce, for instance.
    Employment fluctuated over the years. In the mid-'90s, GM had about 400 employees there, but Sellers said that during peak testing seasons, there could be as many as 1,200 people on site as GM's various divisions sent people to monitor work on their respective makes and models.

    'It is kind of sad'


    "On one level, it is sad to me to see them leave," Arnett said. "It is kind of sad to see a name and a participant in the East Valley come to a close." But because GM's operations have dwindled, Arnett said, the loss will not have a significant economic impact.
    The handwriting has been on the Proving Ground's walls for more than a decade.
    First, Sellers said, the site itself was becoming obsolete.
    "The development cycle of vehicles just kept being compressed," he said. Early on, it could take four or five years to develop a vehicle. Now, it's as little as 18 months; and that could leave only a narrow window for hot-weather testing in Mesa.
    "All of a sudden, when you needed to do hot-weather validation work on a vehicle, it might be January or February - not hot enough," Sellers said.
    Second, there was an eastward-rolling tsunami of suburban sprawl.
    As early as the mid-'90s, developers were coveting GM's land and surrounding areas near the former Williams Air Force Base, now Phoenix-Mesa Gateway Airport, for new housing projects.
    Despite the interest, GM's presence in the Valley seemed secure when, in 1998, the company said it would spend $52 million to upgrade the Proving Ground.
    Only two years later, GM announced it would abandon Mesa in favor of a year-round hot-weather site in Mexico.
    That didn't pan out, and Mesa jockeyed with GM and Maricopa County for much of this decade over whether the Proving Ground would become another sea of red-tile roofs.
    In 2004, GM sold the southern portion to Phoenix businessman William Levine. Two years later, the northern 5 square miles was sold to Scottsdale-based DMB Associates for $265 million.
    GM has been leasing the land as it readies a new site near Yuma, a move it announced in 2007.
    The Yuma operation is a joint venture with the U.S. Army designed to save money for both the company and the military.
    Plans for the southern part of GM's site have been slow to emerge. But for the northern portion, it has been pedal to the metal.
    Within months of buying the land, DMB brought in nationally known experts to talk about how its property could become the hub of an "aerotropolis," a city anchored by the nearby Gateway Airport, with high-rise offices housing corporate headquarters and research facilities.

    DMB is already cleaning up two old landfills and will spend about $2.6 million ripping up 72 miles of test tracks.

    And on the far northern end of land still occupied by the 5-mile-long circular test track, DMB announced last summer there will be a Gaylord resort and conference center, the first step, it hopes, into a new kind of future, one born from a place where yesterday's cars of the future roared to life.
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  20. 1950ChevySuburban
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,187

    1950ChevySuburban
    Member Emeritus
    from Tucson AZ

    Would be cool if they left it all as it is, and built a gearheads retirement community in there. Ya have to be 50 or older to live there, and drive a classic car (or 5)
     
  21. Section 8
    Joined: Mar 22, 2007
    Posts: 1,050

    Section 8
    Member
    from AZ

    Ron Pratte is in the area, He should have bought it and used it to store his cars.
     
  22. this is a great part of american history is a small but important way........everybody that bitches about it going away and can look in there driveway and see a import car they have no bitch coming they ARE a large part of the problem in a much bigger sense
     
  23. english rob
    Joined: Mar 29, 2009
    Posts: 39

    english rob
    Member

    what a sin some one should get lots of photos before its all gone
     
  24. MilesM
    Joined: May 28, 2002
    Posts: 1,219

    MilesM
    Member

    Sad it is coming to an end. I got to drive around the big track and some of the others on an employee open house car show day. I knew an employee there and he got us credentials. It was a blast. The big track has speed limits for each lane up the bank. Actually I think they were minimums or you could not stay up on the bank! I have to find the pics I took. They had a car pacing poeple so you could not wind it up! Some of the off road test areas looks like a blast also.

    About the other post and buried cars. The persons dad I got the credentials from also worked there from way back and he told the same stories of actually driving then into the ditches they dug before they were back filled! I believe he said they stopped in the late 60's. All cars were mules without serial numbers he said.
     
  25. vntodd
    Joined: Jan 1, 2009
    Posts: 58

    vntodd
    Member

    Lived in Phoenix for almost 3 years and never knew the GM proving grounds were there. Knew about the Chrysler facility in Wittman, and even found the old Beeline Dragway site (tower is still there), I guess I missed out, wish I had known about it.
     
  26. BigBlockMopar
    Joined: Feb 4, 2006
    Posts: 1,361

    BigBlockMopar
    Member

    I checked out Mesa with Google-Earth and noticed the location wasn't that hard to spot... -> Click
     

    Attached Files:

  27. blown green t
    Joined: Nov 18, 2008
    Posts: 144

    blown green t
    Member

    You didn't miss a whole lot. I drove by it many time and couldn't see anything. They had huge earth berms and fences on top of the berms. I always wanted to stop at the gate and see if I could get a tour. Never seemed like a good time then.
     
  28. scorpioniron
    Joined: Mar 29, 2007
    Posts: 65

    scorpioniron
    Member

    I worked at the Mesa proving grounds in the suspension and brake dept and also as a driver in 1995-1999 became friends with some of the old engineers and have pics of (3)1983 corvettes that got baged and buried on the proving grounds past the 5 mile oval neer the UV test lab.They say only one survived but three more exist. It was a cool place to work and have lots of cool memories
     
  29. Any 409's sitting in a back room they need hauled away????
     

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