If you haven’t read it yet, see Deuce Roadsters tech on the zip riser. I agree 110% on not putting electric fans on hot rods, but my engine was only 3 inches below center and the zip put me 2 inches above center, not really a solution. So, using the zip concept, I made my own riser. Wish mine was shiny lightweight aluminum, but its heavy ass steel. A little background … I Think the zip is 5 “ cause that makes it easy to just go up over the timing chain cover. At 3 “it was pretty tight. The zip is cast aluminum, but since I was welding it up out of layers of steel plate I actually have some advantages. My “housing” is a mere .010 bigger than the impeller so no Cooler Plate is required. In fact the water channels are more precise everywhere than the zip cast model and balanced side to side to create an even flow through the block. [Not bragging here, just pointing out that I was concerned about this issue and took great pains to address it.] Never measured the depth of a Zip riser, but the combination of my homemade housing and the same 6 cyl pump Deuce used, is about a 1/2 inch shallower than the stock short water pump on the sbc. Working with a 28 ford, that 1/2 inch was precious. I put in a bypass hole to match the pump, so I have it running with the original hose setup, not sure why Zip recommends an alternate setup. [Haven’t hooked up a heater yet, so in the pic you can see I just looped a hose]. The precise fit of the impeller in the housing also eliminates any air pocket, so bleeding isn’t necessary. For the housing itself I used a combination of plate thicknesses. I/8 – ½ - 3/16 etc. both to keep tolerances as close as possible, and to keep the pulleys lined up with the crank pulley. [Had to use a moroso shim kit on the crank for perfection]. Had a friend cut the pieces with a plasma cutter. This gets a little tricky as the plasma cutter blows a different size hole, depending on the thickness of the metal being cut, and I needed the finished pieces to match up. Took 3 tries to get it really right. Pictures are some of the almost right pieces. The different heights are due to a change in mid fabrication. The short ones are just the water pump housing, then I realized our old 327 block didn’t have front mounting holes, so I raised up the center with pivot holes for both the alternator and a/c compressor. If your setup accommodates your alternator/generator you could use the shorter/lighter design. Wouldn’t recommend this for a show car, but it works great. Ran with no thermostat and couldn’t get it hot enough to register on the temp gauge. We will be adding A/C, so a marginal cooling system wasn’t going to get it here in Texas</st1lace></st1:State>. This hot rod will not run hot. Period. If at all possible, I’d go with Deuces plan and use a Zip riser. But if 5 inches doesn’t work and you want more function than style, you might consider this alternative. I’ve got about $300 in this considering materials and what I paid to have my hand design converted to a program for the plasma cutter. But I also have enough pieces, the next one I need is sitting in a box, just waiting to be welded up. I assume I can get the program back for the plasma cutter if anyone wants it. [Didn’t even ask for it when we finished cutting, because I’ll never own a machine like that]. Happy to help anyone who wants to tackle this. Just PM me. Don. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o> </o> <o> </o> <o> </o> <o> </o> <o> </o>
Now that's tech ... and Hot Rodding at it's BEST ... I am impressed. I see in your installed photo ... that you have a hose going from the intake to the return line on the water pump that by-passes the thermostat. You are NOT running one so that hose could be removed. When using a thermostat and it is closed ... the extra return line is used to help keep the coolant moving in the block/heads until the thermostat opens
Deuce. I am running a thermostat now. Just ran a week without one to see how efficient it could be. It doesn't show at this angle, but the hose from the intake to the pump return is pretty kinked, I don't think much is getting through there as it runs right on the degree of the thermostat. Could cap those off, but this was easier, and the heater will go in soon. I'll take a few more pics. Wasn't sure anyone would care. Thought maybe I was the only one anal enough to go to this much work to replace a 14 inch fan with a 17 inch. As you pointed out, the math involved in the area of a circle is fascinating. 14 inch fan pulls 153 sq. in. 17 in fan pulls 226 sq. in. that's a 48% increase. On a side note: could have run an 18 inch fan, but was limited by the shroud dimensions. No shroud pretty well negates the whole deal.
Deuce, just had an afterthought. You mentioned keeping the coolant flowing while the thermostat is closed. I've heard of drilling a 1/8 in hole in the thermostat. Suposedly allows just a little bit of flow and helps prevent cavitation in a stock water pump. Don't think its an issue with the tolerances on this one, but my 41 has a stock pump. Any experience with that trick?
Yes, I do that little deal too ... two small holes ... Do not know if it really helps ... but it does not hurt ...
Definitely show us more! The Zip in the other thread looks kind of modern. How long have they been around?
I bought my first one back in the late 70's or early 80's ... They were cast iron back then, a second version came out in aluminum ( looked just like the iron ones ) and now the 3rd generation. More boxy and modern looking.
AWESOME...!!!! If you can get your metal shop to burn the patterns on a CD.... or a printed full-size version that I can cut out and trace, I'd gladly buy one. I don't have a CNC plasma cutter, but I can just about split a hair by hand... and I can always cut it outside the line and take it down with the belt sander and die grinder. Find out if you can get them printed and let me know how much... I'm in. JOE
Ratbone, took some pics. The unit is just under an inch in depth. I've got about a 1/2 inch clearance to the radiator. As you can see, where the alternator is mounted you can't really see the unit. Should look the same from the pass side once I mount the A/C compressor. I went through this whole exercise for the express purpose of having the ability to run an A/C in traffic at 100 + degree weather. Glad you like it.
Deuce. do you happen to have a pic of a thermostat with the holes drilled in it? I'm wondering if my nearly pinched off hose from the intake to the pump isn't creating some small amount of bypass, that I will lose when I hook up the heater. I'm told that if you get roilling, or cavitation before the thermostat opens it will show up as fluxuations on the temp gauge. Right now I'm rock solid. May drill the thermostat anyway, like you said, can't hurt.
Don, hey, check your email, I wrote you a long email on this thing. I appologize not writing sooner, but honestly, April didn't know I was looking for it and I don't check often. Thanks again. Great job on these.
Don, also (and if anyone else needs them) I have a REALLY easy program to go from a paper pattern to dxf or a few other cnc programs. If you ever want to save the programing money on something like this, contact me and as long as you let me use the files too, I'll program it for de nada. Obviously you wouldn't want something like aircraft parts taken from a paper pattern, but something like this, we would be WELL ok on tolerences. Eh, food for thought.
say, i went looking on the internet for a zip water pump relocater and didnt find nuttin...were do you get'em at?
Zip riser. I know I saw them in the Vintage Air catalog, but I can't find them in the web catalog. You can call them at 210 654 7171. It will raise your fan center at least 5, maybe 5 1/2 inches. Around $250 as I recall.
i just flat cant find zip riser or any combo of the words on the net... if the cad drawing thing comes to life could i please get a copy of the file in .dwg if possible or anyother that cad 2k will open..id apreciate it
Gunny, and anyone else interested. Contact S.R.I. (see his post above). I sent him what I had and he understands both your question, and the answer, I don't. For the zip riser, see the Vintage Air catalog http://www.vintageair.com/catalog.asp \Go to page 54, lower left hand corner.
oldguy829, for the piece of "pinched" hose shown in your picture; I had to solve almost the same problem. I found a "molded" sharp turn in a Gates hose catalog. It's for a 348/409 Chev. water pump. Trimmed to length; it eliminated the "pinched" area.
Wow. it's been 2 years, but seems even longer. Been running that setup so trouble free i dont think about it anymore. DRuss32 - That was a concern when I built it, but I used new, perfectly flat stock, and bolted through all those holes (on the bench) before I welded it. The bolts don't run through any water area, so it would have to seep up between the layers. It just doesn't, guess bolting the pump on keeps it closed up. Finally got the AC, heater and defroster hooked up. That's a lot of plumbing that was hard to hide on an open engine. The good new is, you have to stick your nose in it to see the pump riser. So obscure no one has ever commented on it. As you can see, the mountings for the Ac and alt worked out fine.
I'd have to go digging, to be sure. But as I recall, it was 3/8 in. Just enough to clear the flange on the timing chain cover cause it straddles it pretty close.
That link is invalid since several years have passed. Here's the current link and notice the catalog page is now in Adobe <.pdf> format: Big Block Chevy, LS Steel-eez, 6 Cyl Chevy & Water Pump Riser Compressor Brackets - page 62 - http://www.vintageair.com/catalog09/09 VintageAir Catalog 62.pdf Although the listing states "Big Block," that is because they now sell a "new" big block version. The small block version is also shown on the catalog page.
The Jalopy Journal
