Hi, So I was thinking that I could cut some good sheet metal and apply some glue (metal / pannel bonding adhesive) to them and stick them from them back over the holes. Then I was thinking that I could take a little skiff of fibrebondo and go along the from of the pannel and poof no more body trim holes. Has anyone ever done this? What are the things that I should watch out for? am I missing anything. Any help appreciated guys.
I imagine it could be done. 3M makes some two part adhesives called "scoth-weld" there are different formulas so you'd want to be sure you get the right one. We use an adhesive at work called "plexus". It will glue a sweaty ass to a greased slide.... Both of these require special applicator "guns". I'm afraid you might have a problem with the backers releaing over time. With metal heat and cool and general flex. Then you will have even more work to do to do it right.
What I did on mine was to cut small metal squares, got some pieces of magnet to hold the metal in place (from the backside) and mig tacked them in place. I suppose that if you dont want to weld, you could do the same with filler. As long as you have the metal pieces as a bonding surface, you should be able to use metal to metal filler for this. If you weld, the magnets will go to pieces after the first or second tack. I tried the "sticking thing" with the metal and it wouldn't hold.
drill some holes in some scrap sheet metal and practice welding on that. once you the filling dialed in and your confidence is up, THEN do the quarters. or find someone to give you a hand with them.
Surely someone with more experience will correct me, but I always thought panel adhesives have issues with paint adhesion. Great for metal to metal contact, but you want to minimize it on the edges where paint/putty will contact it. Based on that doesn't seem like a good backer for bondo. Good luck
Virtually every imported truck bed (and possibly domestics as well) are assembled using structural adhesives at the point of entry. If it holds a truck bed together over years of use and abuse I would venture a guess that filling non-load-bearing holes on a quarter panel would pose no undue stress on the adhesive. I have seen it used on firewalls to fill in unwanted holes...this is especially useful in areas where you can't tolerate a lot of heat and grinding. Lord Fusor and others make a variety of adhesive products which should be readily available at your local auto paint supply house. These are two part epoxies and come in cartridges that have disposable single-use mixing tips...the "gun" is nothing more than glorified caulk gun and should not be that expensive. The last kit I bought had the gun, three different adhesives, and about 2 dozen tips and it all cost less than $100. Once you have invested in a kit like this you will find an unlimited number of other uses for this adhesive. I believe that it was "tinbender" here on the HAMB that used it to chop a top on a model A rather than welding.
The glorified caulking guns are very expensive usually $100 or more. There are adhesives available ffom Evercoat that will work in a regular caulking gun (yes still two part). Shifty is right about paint issues you definitely want to make sure there is very little of the product in the actual hole as you may find bonding problems with filler. Ever without the problem with the adhesive you will find that in small trim holes you may not get great adhesion of the filler material and it may crack and come loose over time which will in the end be more work having to repair. All in all it's probably less hassle to learn how to weld them up properly.
I wont work, dont do it.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Who are the WEIRD-OS ?
If your scared to weld them, take it to someone who isnt. Even if the adhesive would work its still half assed...
Come to think of it. The doors hinges on lots of vehicles are glued on. Charlie, are you sure the entire bed area is glued or is it a combination of a few tacks and edhesive/seam sealer. I don't know, just asking.
I would be more concerned with the filled spots showing though the paint after a few months. If I was reluctant to do it myself I would be finding a competent body man who could weld the holes up and then finish them off myself. The cost will probably be about the same as buying the kit and pookie if you do the prep work so all they have to do is weld the holes up.
I have a friend who is an "ace" metal worker. He's been in business for over 30 years building rods with major metal work. When he welds trim holes (he just did a '70 Charger for me) he keeps a soking wet rag close by, and quenches the weld IMMEDIATELY after welding. This shinks the metal, pulling out any ripple he creates. He even does this again after grinding the weld. Any plastic work is minimal.
Don't glue them,even "IF" you get the adhesive cleaned out and the holes filled,they will swell eventually and you'll see were every hole was.Practice welding on scrap sheet metal,go to any local body shop, they have scrap body panels,ask if you can have a couple to practice on.Make friends with a bodyman and learn from them.
I once bought a fourdoor '57 chevy where they just bondoed over the trim holes. I have pictures someplace, they just turned into rusty little circles after what I'm guessing was 5 years or something.
The car is worth the extra effort to have them welded up right, especially if you're going to keep it. In theory, a good 2-part adhesive like these guys talked about will hold up, I've used it a lot on door panel replacement, it's really strong, but I still wouldn't use it to patch holes.
I will tell you right no dont do it. The adhesive will expand and contact at a different rate and eventiually you will see a circle where the trim hole was. Welding is the only right way to do it. Bonding adhesives do a good job at bonding non structural panels to cars, but arent meant for cosmetic repairs like filling holes.
F It, I am going to take off the dress and weld those holes and not look back. Thanks for all the support and ideas on this thread guys. Much appreciated
If you do not want to weld the holes and do not want to use adhesive, solder them. I welded the holes on mine and I wish I would have used body solder instead. Its more reversible if at a later date you change your mind. You can use a small propane torch or a torch used specifically for soldering. To solder on odd surfaces were solder or lead tends to fall down when in liquid form, back the hole with some copper wire that has been untwisted and spread apart and held up by tape. below are some pics to help you out. It takes a little bit to learn how to lead or solder. Make sure the metal is clean and avoid cold soldering, the metal area needs to be heated not the solder. wire prepped to be taped behind the panel. wire in place. finished result. doing this without the wire would be almost impossible because the solder would fall to the floor as it got hot.
Now you got your balls back on kid ! LOL These guys are 100% correct in telling you to weld them up . If you are worried about blowing through with too much heat , get somebody with a tig rig or hold another piece of small sheetmetal behind it and start your puddle right on that piece until it puddles into the hole edges . Definitely have a wet rag ready to go over the weld IMMEDIATELY !!!!!! I put ice in mine . Some wire-feed welders ,even on thier lowest setting are a bit hard to finesse . I have seen some guys warp the piss out of sheetmetal and I also had a welder named Mike Hovey that could heli-arc a piece of aluminum foil back together and you couldn't find a hole anywhere in it holding it up against the sun . We had a welder named Victor that thought he was the shit welding a coke can back together until we were all at a BBQ one afternoon and he was bragging his ass off and then he made that fatal mistake and asked me " Jerry , Who's our best welder on the job ? " I was a welding inspector and at that time we have over 320 employees and over 60 welders on that jobsite . Well ol Mike Hovey was a real quiet guy as most GOOD CRAFTSMEN are and didn't say a word . Victor rolled out his rig and showed everybody at the BBQ the Coke can trick that he was so proud of and I looked over at Mike and we both just grinned at each other since I had seen him do this already on graveyard shifts when we were bored and he had damned near got me to where I could do it but I always got holes . I asked Victor if Mike could borrow his rig and he say " No problem dude , jew tink you can do it ?" ( Yes Victor is Mexican ) I said no I caint , but I have a welder sitting here that can top that ! I then asked Cindy which was the foreman's wife where we were having the BBQ to go get me a piece of aluminum foil . Needless to say , Victor never bragged about the Coke can trick again and quit thinking he was God's gift to welding from that day on . Ol Mike just got up out of his chair , did it , and sat back down without ever saying a word . We watched Victor go through a whole large roll of Cindy's aluminum foil until he finally ran his machine out of diesel . We still laugh about that day when we see each other . WELD IT MY FRIEND !!! BEFORE I HAVE TO CALL MIKE !!! LOL
anytime this subject comes up someone usually comes along with thier non-welding method and states that they did it X number of years ago and it is still holding up just fine. think about that.... have you ever heard anyone justify welding up holes by stating how long ago they did it and it hasn't failed? of course not since welding is the right way to do it and when done right is as good as never having a hole at all. ...another important thing to remember. heat is the enemy. the metal does not know if the heat came from welding or from grinding, it just reacts. you can warp a panel during thr grinding process just as easy as welding. if you can't touch it with your hand it is too hot. grind somewhere else for a bit. I like to grind welds like this using the edge of a 3" cut off wheel on my air grinder. that way I only grind the weld and am not thinning out and heating the surrounding metal
your idea doesnt sound to bad, if u can get themetal to stick real good from behind u should be fine using filler on the front side of it, as long as the filler has something ridgid to stick too, just remeber that putting just a dab of the filler in the hole and sanding it smooth wont exactly do the trick u may still be able to see the hole once in prime, so just keep in mind that you may have to use a lil more filler than u think
Metal bonding adhesive will hold the backing but it WILL show the holes when the car is in the sun. I did use the adhesive on a top chop but it was on a 33 ford p/u only for the ledge that the top cap bolts to along the rear of the cab. Everything else was welded. Metal bonding adhesive is great stuff but it is NOT for exposed lap seams.
I have seen some pretty good welders over the years but the guy that welds tinfoil back together is BAD ASS! That is WELDING! I have watched people do this and like anything else the more you do it the better most people will get. I have welded a few trim holes,firewall holes,and done some patching . I always try to keep the heat down by moving from one hole to another and back and forth and of course the iced water in a bucket and towell help a lot to keep the heat down.You are certainly doing the right thing by deciding to do it your self and asking these Guys on this site for help and recomendations how to get the job done. It is one thing for someone to do a little body work on a Hot Rod, but the way some of these folks on here Chop and Channel rides, and some of the Custom work they do is AWSOME! That my friend takes KNOWLEDGE and SKLL! I agree with the statement about longevity! It is pretty easy to do some repairs and make it look pretty good! But will it stand the test of TIME! Time tells everything about quality work! So I agree that you should practice a little bit then get after it. Hell if you are like me you can't do anymore damage than a GOOD body shop can't fix! LOL . I think if you search around on the internet you can find an instructional video which may be a little helpful. I know that watching somebody do something is one of the best ways to learn a little more also.
One more tip that I did not see mentioned is using a copper backer bar. Your welds will not stick to it and the weld puddle will flow as if you are doing a lap weld rather then trying to fill an open hole.
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