Since i'm known to be long winded, i'll toss out the question first. "Does anyone know if a 4.0 H.O. Jeep motor will work with the original flash-o-matic (basically old school C4) 3 speed automatic in my '64 AMC Typhoon?" Now for the long winded part... Here's what I want to do: '95 4.0 H.O. block and head (strongest block with additional webbing, stud girdles and the best flowing head ever put in a Jeep) 258 rotating assembly to make a 4.7 (286 cubic inches) Roller rockers Full port, polish, and port match on the head Goal of 10.5:1 compression Long tube CJ5 headers (6 into1) with a few inches taken out of the middle to shorten them up a bit to fit in my car Offenhauser Dual Plane intake for bottom end torque '64 AMC 327 4V Holley. It'll use a stock AMC air cleaner which is just a little bigger than the 6 cylinder's, and when you turn the carb sideways on the intake, the linkage and kickdown match right up. Plus it's keeping it all AMC. I'm just OCD like that... Cherry on top... 75-100 shot of nitrous for the Day of the Drags Obviously this isn't a complete list of mods to make all the above mentioned parts worked, but you guys should get the general insanity of it all. To keep the post somewhat entertaining... here's the turd I plan on investing way too much time and effort into: AND MAYBE ONE DAY... (but with AMX Magnum 500's and redlines... or supremes and skinny whites)...
you're right..that 327 and twin stick needs to go in that typhoon..but then it wouldn't be a typhoon...
Hell ya man! I like your thinkin'! Eventhough the car really won't be worth a lot when it's all said and done... it's still rare and was a one year only anomoly in that one color combo... so i'm really trying hard to resist the urge to flat out get crazy with it. I'll be happy playing with it's original configuration. I think the beautiful car at the bottom only sold for 6500 bucks on ebay about 2 months ago... I'm only investing time and money into this thing because I really really like it and want to keep it for a long time.
If you look carefully... the delete plate for the twin stick is right in front of the console lid... mighty tempting.
i would put some good rods in that motor .258 rods SUCK ,,,,very weak!!!!seen alot of built 258s .they run good. but the rods fail!!!!
Good to know man. I think Eagle makes a nice H beam rod for those 258's if i'm not mistaken... and there goes my budget. Better than a hole in the block though.
That one may take getting your block and comparing it to your transmission, but you could check with the guys at Allpar.com on it -
CJ, I like what you're doing. This is a really rare car, but as with so many cars, rare does not mean valuable. So I say have at it....you'll have the only one like it! Your car has the Borg Warner Flash O Matic, which is the same trans as the early Ford select shift Cruise O Matic. This will NOT bolt up to the later AMC and Jeep engines. The bell housing pattern was changed in mid 1971, if memory serves me correctly. I know you're probably trying to work around that torque tube drive shaft, but the best bet is to install a newer rear end in the car, and go with the Torqueflite trans if you want an automatic. The AMC 727 was a much stouter, more reliable transmission anyway, and you'll be able to get things like high stall converters, and shift kits for this unit, unlike the Borg Warner.
I don,t know about the jeeps as such but the engines i belive are based on the old chrysler australia 215 245 and 265 hemi's(not really)the aussie ones were avaliable with manual,904 torqueflites and also the aussie borg warner 35 auto trans.These motors are fairly popoular down here they came specced up to 302bhp from the factory with tripple 45mm webbers.heaps of hipo parts are avaliable 400 plus hp is quite common.If i can be any help let me know
I ran a similar setup in my fiberglass CJ5. The Offy Dual-Port is a fantastic choice, runs out of power after you will run out of revs. Use the 390 Holley, anything bigger is useless. The 4.0 has much better rods than the 258 so you are good, as for a cam I ran the Crane 260-2-NC (RV cam). Lots of low end and revs like a SBC but keep it under 5,000 RPM. I would use the 904 T-flite, plenty strong and you can score one from a late CJ or AMC eagle that has the 2.72 low gear and you will love it. Late cherokees had a great factory exh manifold that looks like a header and won't leak.
Man, you guys are giving me some great suggestions! Now that the fog is starting to clear up i'm starting to see three ways I can go with this. I can keep the car a 232 and not have to deal with all the fabricating, stroking, wondering if crap will work/fit... and actually get to drive the car this year with a bunch of fun boltons and some of the normal internal work like a full balance port/polish etc. Go all out Frankenstein with it and do what I was originally intending to do... however I wasn't planning on having to replace the tranmission or rear end... which is making me think less of this idea... (I really want to drive this car this year) Or... possibly find a '95-ish 2wd Cherokee with the 4.0 H.O. / automatic with over drive and keep it fuel injected for mid 20mpg level mileage and have the ability to run some sort of forced induction on it. My problem with this, is I don't care for aftermarket gauges in a classic car. I don't know how i'd get the speedometer to work. Everything else would be a snap... unless the computer is smarter than I think it is and wouldn't like to be hooked to funky old 1964 gauges... The most important thing I forgot to mention... is this is the wife's car. She doesn't care how I build it, but she's gotta be able to drive it and enjoy it. I like an A-hole on the street... squirrely, gigantic cam and a stick shift... but she'd be way too uncomfortable with that.
They kind of look similar, but I don't think the AMC motor was based on the Hemi six. The AMC came out in '66 as a 199 (I believe) while Chrysler were still using the 'Leaning Tower of Power'. Back to the original question: Irregardless of whether the 4.0 will bolt up to the original trans, with the power and torque that motor will make, it'll blow the shit out of it anyway! Put a Torqueflite or a manual (stick) behind it.
I'd go for the 232-258-4.0L with the Tourque flight. Or you could round up the parts to use a GM TH400--- Get a 4wd version out of a CJ or Wagoneer, Then add in the 2wd tailshaft/housing from a Chevy Pickup. I think it will work. I've got the parts I just haven't done it yet. What every you do post pics, I love AMC Porn!!!! Jeff
The 232 is a different bolt pattern than the 258-4.2 or 4.0 liter. Why not use the AW4 from the Jeep also two wheel drive version. Cherokees are fast the way they come stock. FOUR BANGER is correct about the 1971 year for bellhousing change.
I like the style of the Rambler. Real clean. Kind of early Falconish. It would make a great looking rod. My brother did the full tilt thint to his Jeep with the 258 and my best friend had a '66 Rambler with the big 6 that he worked over. Lots of Clifford Reasearch parts on it. I think he was kicking some SBC heiney with it. A unique car like your's with a, not expected, souped up engine is alway very interesting.
1. The AMC six is a completely clean-sheet AMC design, not based on any other engine. 2. All pre 72 AMC sixes use a unique bell housing that is smaller in diameter than 72+ AMC engines. In 72 AMC change the six cylinder block to use the same bolt pattern as the V-8. So 64-71 232s have the small bell, 72-79 232s have the large bell -- as does the 4.0L. 3. 258 rods are fine. They will break, but only when revved way over the designed red-line of the AMC six, which is around 5K. Unless you're going to constantly run over 5K, such as in a sand or mud racer, get the Eagle H beams or some other rod. I've got a mild 4.6L stroker (4.0L, 0.030" overbore, 258 crank and rods) that I rarely run over 3K, but it's a cruiser. It's seen 5K several times, but my cam poops out at 5000-5500 rpm anyway. Rock crawlers have a way of breaking things like 258 rods at less than 6K rpm, but that's about par for the course -- they gonna' keep going until they break SUMP'IN!! 4. You MIGHT be able to use the old M-36 (or M-37) trans with the 4.0L, but it's going to be marginal. For a cruiser it would work okay. You would need a V-8 bell from a 67-71 290/2V (4V 290s used an M-11) or 304 car. Those used a M-4x (40, 42,44) trans that is close to the M-3x you have. In fact, I'd take them both apart and use as much of the M-4x as possible. I'm reasonably sure the center (main) case of the M-4x can be used with the output shaft housing of the M-3x. The main difference between the M-3x and M-4x is that the 4x has liquid cooling, the 3x is air cooled. There should be a big air inlet hole in the passenger side of the bell on yours and no cooling lines to the radiator. The 4x will take a bit more power than the 3x too, different number and/or material for the clutches and bands inside. 5. You can use a 4.0L head on the 232. Takes a little work, but not much. The 4.0L head flows better, and you can use the 4.0L stock exhaust header and even EFI if you wanted. 6. If you stick a 4.0L in the best thing to do is use the AW-4 trans along with it. You can use a 904 or 998 out of an AMC car or Jeep though. Regardless, you'll have to change the rear axle and suspension to use a modern trans. A Ford Explorer axle is the right width. Keep the Rambler coils, then use ladder bars, a universal four link kit, or the G-body truck arm kit from Hot Rods to Hell (I like the later best). Or go big buck like I did and use a Jag IRS. I have a 63 Classic wagon with 4.6L EFI, AW-4 with manual controller, and the Jag IRS.
How the hell do you remember all this AMC stuff, farna? That's about all the info you'll need CJ Steak. Please make it happen and make sure you POST PICS!
I don't remember it all. I've got a complete set of TSMs from 52-83, and a few other reference books. I *do* manage to remember a lot because of constantly looking things up for people though! Not complaining, I don't mind the questions at all. I'm just saying the repetition keeps the facts and figures a little closer to the top.
I would love to see you build this Typhoon. It looks like farna has the key to making it doable. In the early 1970's My Mom needed a car to drive. One of my friends had a Typhoon for sale and my Dad bought it. My Dad was not exactly a car guy but appreciated machinery and was a good basic do-it-yourself mechanic. He and my brothers and I fixed it up. It was a 232 with a 3-speed trans. She drove it for a few years and we used it for a family runabout to supplement our 1966 Chevy Sportvan. My brother christened it the "Tywoofer" and that is what we always called it. We all liked that car, loved it's lines and knew of it's rareness and when it finally died we parked it at my grandmothers farm intending to fix it up someday. Unfortunatly it was stolen, vandalized, and pushed into a flooded creek, destroying it.(that's kind of a downer...) Anyway it's great to see one of those again. If you do build it please post pictures.
my daily (98' grand cherokee) has a 4.0 in it and never misses a beat. if it was me the swap would have f.i., always starts wether its 20 or 100 degrees. good solid unit. the rearends are shit mines been howling for 50k since 80k.
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