HA/GR rules show pre-1962 engines. That means the cut off date is 1961. I am using a 70's slant six and I've heard it is ok because slant sixes were around in 1961. Slants are a much more modern engine design than any flathead inline or flathead V8, or 235/261 Chevy and probably have an advantage as a result. GMC's have the benefit of cubic inches. I think the guys using 194's are not out to get an advantage over anyone; they just want to build a car and race. I believe there is only one place and one time that a 194 HA/GR car might not be allowed to run against other HA/GR's and that would be the HAMB Drags. ANRA, Dragfest and most of the Nostalgia meets don't know the difference and don't care, since the only place the class is recognized is the HAMB Drags. Obviously, I don't know what the SDRA guys would do if a 194 car shows up at one of their races. If 8 cars show up for an ANRA race and one of them has a 194 engine, do you think he won't be allowed in? I doubt the other 7 would protest.
Reasonable power can be made with the small Gen 3 motors without a lot of cost. Intake, headers, compression and some valve work. I don't see any where anybody has said they couldn't run. But why have rules if your not going to follow them. Haveing said that, I think it won't be to long before they will be an accepted motor. It could be that they have some restrictions attached to thier build, flat tops maybe? May have to limit carb selection to keep all things equal. Maybe only home made intakes, or something. If it means more cars it might be worth looking into. Car count will help both groups get respect from promotors and other racers.
I'll try to be less long winded than I normally am ........ I believe one of the tenets of the class that many folks seem to have a bit of difficulty with is the point of conceptualization. The reason behind the pre-'62 rule is to allow more modern, because it's more available and cheaper, equipment to stand in for 1950 era equipment. The "rule" is a guideline for this, not a be-all & end-all. Thus the 194, while more technically developed is still an in-line six, and balances out the benefits of its later, better head and "square"ness to a reasonable extent with its smaller displacement. As do some of the Fords, etc. The exact percentages could be quibbled but I believe most of us presently running would consider it to be "in the spirit" as we define it. Taking this to the ever misunderstood carb argument shows that the quads of the mid to late '50s would be out of the spirit as they weren't an extrapolation of what was being run in '50 (even when they were on engines that were), where as singles, dueces, slides, etc, were. The obvious (and uncontested) aspect of it that no one is having trouble with is in gear boxes and rear ends. The very same folks trying to hammer down and/or parse the engine and carb rules seem clearly able to understand that a gear is a gear is a gear, and modern, more available & cheaper parts there can fairly stand in for '50 parts (and that safety practices might also be somewhat newer while still representing the era). I'll go further to say that I also believe the folks who do "get it" are the ones building and running'em. In addition, I feel that the folks building and running the more modern version of'em "get it" just as well as we "get" their take on it. That's why the two camps manage to comfortably stand together against "them as don't". End of pontification. Not tooooo bad, only five paragraphs. Anyway, thanks for the opportunity to give my "slant" on it.
Let's talk about rules. I for one can see no advantage running a 194 but I want to say something about why we have rules. I entered the Super Stock wars in 1958 with a 1958 315hp Biscayne. The rules stated that you had to have a scattershield and you could run headers. That meant everything else had to be factory. The tires could be one size bigger than what the factory offered with the car. Impalas came with 8:00X14 so you could run 8:50X14, my Biscayne came with 7:50X14 so I could run 8:00X14. I ran 8:50 at first and didn't get caught until I ran against Tommy Rentig at Colton and beat him so he came over and said he was going to protest and I thought I was going to have to pull a head but he just protested my tires and it didn't cost him anything. I ran 8:00X14 from then on. My point is that I won a lot a of races and raced against Les Ritchey, Don Nicholson, Bob Fulp and a lot big guys and beat them sometimes. I always beat Les and his Blown Ford. I know that it would be a lot cheaper to race a 300 Ford or a 292 Chev and we would be able go faster. We could run alcohol and get rid of cooling problems. Cubic money always beats cubic inches so rules try to level the playing field so the little guy can have a chance of having a little fun. Why did we used to have over a 100 fuel dragsters show up at National events because it was cheap enough that the average guy or guys could build and compete. Now it takes millions of dollars to field a fueler unless it is a Junior Fueler and they can hardly fill an 8 car field. I like the rules of HAMB and SDRA just the way they are because if you really want to change them get in another class and spend your hard earned money and race your heart out. By 1962 Super Stock was factory paid and pro drivers with the little guy sitting on the side line watching. Roy
Old6rodder-- Using your line of thought, could a person use 4200 (Gen 4)? Its just a little more modern. lol It's still just an I6 (153624 or a veriation there of) as they say. Just Kidding. 348chevy--Rules are a necessary evil for any organization. Without them you have mayhamb. But you must always keep an eye open to the future. Not necessarily for change, but to be aware of what is changing and how it will apply to you or your organization. Will it be necessary to change the rules? Maybe, someday. But lets look at whats best for the groups as a whole when we do. The good part of BOTH groups as it stands today is they allow anybody that wants to build a car and race to do so. They don't have to build cookie cutter cars. They don't have rule books the size of the Dallas phone book (NASCAR). You can use your skills to build what you want and can afford, and what you can have fun with. My .02$ Thanks
I can't believe this.. I truly can't believe this...You mean to tell me that after almost a year of building a car, Your pissing and moaning about my piece of shit 194 chev..that was produced in 1962..That I wouldn't be able to run at the HAMB Drags..That little turd of a motor that produces 120hp stock.and now with the cam and carbs, Maybe 150 now..You got guys bragging about their 322 cu in motors only putting out 345hp. .and your worried about 194 cu in.??? I don't need a HA/GR car. I already have a "Cubic Dollar" race car that pumps out over 725hp injected on Alky..But I thought it would be fun to have and drive since the Economy is in the crapper about now. And hard to afford the EXTRA parts needed to keep going.. Let me explain something here.. I have this motor because my friend says to me. Ya need a motor for that thing,??? Yea,, I don't have one yet..I got one that came out of my sons Nova about 6 years ago, It's a 194.. Ya want it.?? It;s FREE.. For that price,, I'll take it...So went the story.. NOW I get,, It isn't legal..I can pull the plug on this whole mess and not miss any sleep over it.. I just wanted to go out with Dick, Rocky, and others and have some fun.. OH WELL!!!!
hi guys,as an outsider, i know its not my place to comment, but please bear with me. what attracted me to the ha/gr is the diversity of engines and ideas. i'd like to build a dodge flathead 6, yet i'm not stupid. that wont compete with a slant 6 or jimmy. look,we're all racers at heart and i'm not towing a car 1000miles knowing i'll go out in the first round. to preserve diversity, how about flat 6's get 1sec on the ohvs? otherwise we'll all be running jimmy's and slant 6's(which are cool). who'd pay to watch that?
ThingyM, As the builder of the 322 inch, 346HP Jimmy, I'd like to be the first to welcome your 194 inch Chevy to the ranks of the HA/GR. I built our Jimmy to see just what I could do with an old design, inline 6. If I was really concerned with going fast and kicking everyone's ass I would have talked my partners into building a twin engine HA/GR car with twice the power. It would still meet the HA/GR rules. As far as I'm concerned my priority is not to beat anyone, my priority is to keep playing with our car and make changes to improve our ET & MPH. Hell, I don't even care if other HA/GR cars show up when we're there. In effect I'm only concerned with beating my own best performance. I could have just as much fun, and satisfaction, if I had built a 4 cylinder Model A engine and ran 75 MPH. I would still be competing against myself. You all can do whatever you want and argue till hell freezes over.....my partners and I will run our car and try to have some fun. Ron
Dick, you don't finish and run that damn thing and I'll push you down on the next available sidewalk. Gentlemen, this's the nature of the internet. It's like relatives, you pick out and enjoy the good parts of'em and ignore the pita parts rather than take'em personally. The only way to make it all good would be to hunt'em down and shoot'em and the cost of bullets isn't coming down anytime soon. Just use it for what it's worth to you but don't let it get your goat. For those of us that don't drive a goat, don't let it get your (fill in blank). Yes it'll rain, once in awhile. Build. Race. Smile. ps. I liked "MayHAMB", nice pun. That'd be a good possible for another local group name. pps. Hey Thingy, which one of us is Dick #1 and which is Dick #2, or do we race for that too? Sincerely, Dick #?, of the "HAMBster Herd".
Right now, the way I see it people are gettin' their knickers in a knot over knothing, but then again I'm building the stone age rail with the trailing edge of technology. As for that sidewalk push, I'll help with that one, quit yur bitchin' Thingy, if no one else will race you, I will. Goats.......we don't need no steenkin' goats! And about the rain, without the rain we wouldn't have the flowers. As for "which Dick is Dick #1" maybe you should just have a match race for "Fastest Dick in the West.
Hiney, We're trying to decide what our racing schedule will be this year. I'm sure we'll make it to Tulsa at least once. Hell, I'd like to beat you and Roy at least once. Are you going to be cooking breakfast like you did at Kansas City during the nostalgia drags. Don Garlits survived your cooking that weekend so I'm sure it must be pretty good. Ron
Hey Thingy M I'm not saying don't run your 194, I would be the last to say that. I'm just saying that if we don't watch out we can be in a world of anything goes in a matter of a couple of years. If you come back here and run I would stand beside you and say OK. I'm just saying that we need to keep it so the little guy doesn't get run over by the money. I made an opening statement about the 194 not being an advantage and that may have come across wrong. It was only meant to mean that I don't see anthing wrong with the engine. Other than having more mains and lasting longer it certainly has no advantage power wise. WE just have to be careful and not kill the goose because we want more gold. I certainly don't want to piss off anyone, not my intent.Roy
Sorry I missunderstood. Thought Crk didn't want the 194, turns out he was supporting it. My bad. The internet in a hard way to communicate. I've found we all get along pretty well when we see each other in person. Just keep building and work it out on the track.
This cloud were working thru make it a little hard to see facial expressions and hear inflections in voices.
The Jalopy Journal
