Someone want to explain dry sump?

I've had dry sump tanks explained to me in the past but I tend to forget unexplored territory till I actually get right into it... Lucky

 

Basically what all Porsche engines use. Instead of there being a crank that runs through oil the oil is sprayed at it. Normally an oil pump pumps through the crank and the crank spins in oil. In dry sump oil is in a tank and it is sprayed all over.

 

It's when you and a gal, keep your clothes on and start,,,,,,,, oh crap, my bad, I read something else.

 

System uses a regular pressure fed oiling system for bearings, etc. like conventional engines. The difference is the oil is pumped out of the sump before it can accumulate, it is then stored in a remote tank and fed from there back to the engine oiling system. They generally use two oil pumps, are high capacity scavenging pump to remove the oil from the sump and a more conventional pump to pressurize the engine oil system. "Dry sump" because the sump (oil pan) is "dry", oil is removed before it can accumulate. The purpose is to prevent oil starvation, excessive crankshaft drag, etc. from occurring.

 

Short version...Storing the oil in a tank, rather than the pan, so the crank and rods don't have to go through the oil, thus freeing up some HP. Other bennies would include removing air and foam from the oil, and not much risk of uncovering the pick-up due to oil slosh.

Craig

 

Simple explaination
A dry sump oiling system has an external oil pump
Instead of the oil staying in the pan it is pumped to a tank
More capacity,positive oil feed,sometimes ground clearance,crankcase vacume
we use 3,4,and 5 stage systems depending on application
If you need more info give me a call

Tony

 

The only spraying of oil is for cooling purposes only. The oil is still circulated around the engine normally for lubrication.
It is called dry sump because the oil is not held in the oil pan, but in a nearby tank. Normal race set ups have an external oil pump that will have 4 sections. 1 will pump pressurized oil to the oil galleys, 1 will pump oil to sprayers that will shoot the oil onto the back sides of the pistons or valve springs. 2 will be scavenge sections that will suck oil out of the engine and dump it into the dry sump tank. Multiple scavenge locations are used so oil does not build up in the valve covers or around the crankshaft. Once the oil is in the tank, the air is separated from the foamy oil and it is sent to the pressure sections.
The main purpose is to ensure the engine always has oil pressure no matter how fast it is accelerating or cornering. The next benefit is that it keeps the amount of oil stuck to the rotating components down for less windage.

 

Excellent expanations above. Here's one a bit simpler. Humans are are wet sumped. Pump (heart) and liquid (blood) and ditribution system (veins & arteries) are all enclosed in one unit (body). Dry sump is like being on a heart lung machine. The pump is external, the liquid is pumped in and out of the unit (body) and recirculated.
The advantage in engines is that the pressure is always positive. No sloshing of oil in the sump (pan) during turns, acceleration and braking. Also, a lot less system pressure is required....meaning less HP. Ground clearance, smaller sump, better lubrication and so on.
Poor example? Oh, well.

 

Dry sump oil systems typically use an externally mounted multi section oil pump, usually driven at 1/2 engine speed by a belt off of the front crank nose,some are driven off of one end of the cam shaft. As I said the pump is multi section, one section provides the oil to the engine for lubrication, and the other sections are called scavenger sections and their function is to pump any oil that is in the engine to the oil tank that is seperate from the engine. The engine oil is stored in the remote tank and not in the pan. At least one of the scavenger pumps is connected to the pan and it pumps any oil that drains to the pan back to the oil tank and some scavenger section may pump oil out of the engine valley area or even from the rocker arm area.

Dry sump systems allow you to use a very shallow pan which allow you to mount the engine very low but the biggest advantage is that oil in the pan is immediately removed and the crank is not running thru the oil, normally called "windage". This will actually increase the engine power by reducing windage looses. Some of the more complex systems will use very large multiple scavenger pumps that will actually lower the air pressure in the engine case and this will also increase horse power. Another advantage is that with the main pressure pump section taking its oil from the bottom of the remote oil tank and it is not starved during high G cornering.

Almost all racing engines use dry sump systems if they are allowed by the rules. They are expensive, require lots of expensive plumbing and not something you would normally see on a street engine, although the Porsche 911 flat 6 has had a dry sump system since it was originated in 1965.

Rex

 

Old Honda 750's and Harleys have it too. I would think another benefit would be that the oil cools down a little more than a wet sump.

 

How funny I was just thinking the same thing. Good old bikes!

 

HAHAHAHAHA THIS JUST MADE MY SHITTY NIGHT SO MUCH BETTER.....
thanks i needed that

 

Thanks guys for all the different explanations.

Where does the oil go in and out of the motor?
Where do you get parts?
What is the best pump to use? Opposed to ones that have don't work as good or have failed or got stuck?
Lucky

 

If they are still around, get with the guys at Aviad, used to be over in Burbank.

I used several of their external oil pumps on different projects and their stuff is top notch.

OEM oil pumps for Nick Jr and Steve over at Arias for several years.

Lots of the West Coast guys liked them better than Weaver or some of the others.

K

 

Another thing to remember. I bought a car with dry sump system some years ago. The seller was very unhappy with the car because he couldn't take it to the quick change oil services. He did once and they drained the small amount from the dry sump portion of the engine but not the tank. Then they added the 10 quarts of new oil and started the engine looking for leaks. To much oil for the system and it destroyed the engine. Oil everywhere. Broken lines, hydro locked the engine, bent one rod, broke two pistons, etc. etc. I got a car with a new engine that the quick change guys insurance had to pay for. It can happen to you.

 

If you dont change your own oil, you dont fit into the HAMB

 

Why would anybody with a Dry Sump'd car go to the Quicky Change?

Cars that have that are usually serious Machines.

Something that needs a bit more care than a Quicky Change...

( I'd almost say he got what he deserved...)

Another drawback of a Dry Sump is that it takes a lot longer to warm up all the oil, so it takes longer before you can step on it, compared to a Wet Sump...

Edit.

Besides that, my dry Sumped Engine doesn't have a Dipstick, or Filler Cap.
They are all on the Tank.
What kind of car was this?

 

Lucky, give me a call. I'll help you out.

Mike

 

Metalshapes, It was a Porsche 911. The owner was a lady that knew nothing about cars and didn't care. I would also believe that the snot nose kid that probably managed the oil change place new less than her. I still drive it today. Not as much fun as some old fords I've owned but still fun.

 

www.drysump.com has tons of stuff too

 

Metalshapes, sorry the post above didnt finish. As far as the engine warmng up, with an air cooled engine that is less of a problem. But yes the oil takes a long time to warm.

 

Back in the 70s we ran a Barnes dry sump deal on a sbc in oval track racing. Kinda a "poor mans" setup that used a pump mounted in the stock location and plumbed to a external tank. Don't know if they still offer that deal, but it was a lot cheaper than a external pump setup back then.

 

You have to change oil , when did this start ?

It's been in the ground for like 18 million years and isn't going to last a few years in my car ??????

 

Dry sump engines make more HP than their wet sump equivalents and importantly in road racing, run cooler. Much of the engines oil is running through lines and through a tank all exposed to fast moving, which helps keep temps down.

 

Damn it Susan It's Suck not Blow !!! >>>>.

 

So Is there a "traditional" dry sump conversion for a flathead or is it a newer thing?

 

I'm pretty sure it was originally a aircraft thing.

( for high G situations & flying upside down )

And was adapted to ( road ) Racers later.

I'm thinking probably in the '50s?

By the '70s, pretty much every class that allowed them had them...


There must be a Dry Sump Flathead out there, somewhere...

 

If it's been around since the 50's you would think there would be a lot of them. Seems like it would be a cool conversion.

 

Maybe it was a little later than that...

They probably didn't run into really bad oil press problems untill the Tires got wider, and when they got serious about Aero & Downforce.

 

I have one of those setups on my shelf leftover from my circle track days. Never had it on an engine, I think it'd be good for a FED or any other drag car with oil pan clearance issues.

I've seen guys running similar setups on outlaw modifieds(USMTS, etc) because it's techinally not a dry sump. Never researched the newer ones.