how did they trick out the NASCAR Y-blocks back in the day?

There was a lot of racing earlier, but Big Bill France organized NASCAR in '48, they ran on the beach @ Daytona for 10 or 11 years before the first 500 in '59. Wouldn't say the Fords dominated back then but they ran pretty good. Probably not like the Pontiacs & Dodges but were competitive. Wasn't the supercharger on the '57 312s originally intended to run in NASCAR?

 

Didn't Doane Spencer build some Killer Y blocks ???

 

You are apparently talking about a FE not a Y block. It would be inpossible to install the 406 or 428 components in a 292 or 312 Y block. Man i really am enjoying this thread. Would argue some more but have to leave in the peterbuilt in a few minutes. Will argue some more tomorrow. OldWolf

 

He sure did.I see never mention of it much (thanks to the SBC shout it down crowd everywhere) but he did things to the heads like move the pushrod location over and weld and fill ports to increase flow. In fact he did so much to the heads that i reckon it would have been easier for him to cast new ones

 

I have to say that a Y-block is one of my "hope to score one someday" motors. I'm sure I could find something fun to do with it.

Anyways, be nice to us SBC guys. Not all of us think we know everything and it really is a neat little motor.

 

Listen to this 258ci boat anchor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8kiGC6tmQg&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-B0VgRE_8M&feature=channel_page

 

As far as a neat engine that dominated early NASCAR, check out the 308 Twin-H in the Hudson Hornets...

 

think about it. 66 ford! yes it was a 390 FE they where also y blocks. if the block wasn't shaped like a Y i don't know what was.

 

Henry Floored, thanks for posting the story. I really enjoyed reading it.

 

I disagree with you. The Y-Block Fords and Mercs stacked up plenty of wins in Nascar with the peak in 1957. In 1958 the cubic inch wars forced the Ford/Merc guys to FE and 430 Lincoln power. Below are the results on the 1957 Nascar season. I'd say the Y-Blocks did pretty darn good.....

Number Date Site Race Winner Car Speed
1 11/11/56
Landaster, PA
Marvin Panch
Ford
78.648

2 12/02/56
Concord, NC
Marvin Panch
Ford 55.883

3 12/30/56
Titusville, FL
Fireball Roberts
Ford n/a

4 2/17/57
Daytona Beach, FL
Cotton Owens
Pontiac
101.541

5 3/03/57
Concord, NC
Jack Smith
Chevrolet
59.860

6 3/17/57
Wilson, NC
Ralph Moody
Ford 55.079

7 3/24/57
Hillsboro, NC
Buck Baker
Chevrolet
82.233

8
3/31/57
Weaverville, NC
Buck Baker
Chevrolet
65.693

9
4/07/57
N. Wilkesboro, NC
Fireball Roberts Ford 75.015

10
4/14/57
Langhorne, PA
Fireball Roberts Ford 85.850

11
4/19/57
Charlotte, NC
Fireball Roberts Ford 52.083

12
4/27/57
Spartanburg, SC
Marvin Panch
Ford 55.130

13
4/28/57
Greensboro, NC
Paul Goldsmith
Ford 49.905

14
4/28/57
Portland, OR
Art Watts
Ford 64.754

15
5/04/57
Shelby, NC
Fireball Roberts Ford 54.861

16
5/05/57
Richmond, VA
Paul Goldsmith
Ford 62.445

17
5/19/57
Martinsville, VA
Buck Baker
Chevrolet
57.318

18
5/26/57
Portland, OR
Eddie Pagan
Ford 64.732

19
5/30/57
Eureka, CA
Llyod Dane
Ford 55.957

20
5/30/57
New Oxford, PA
Buck Baker
Chevrolet
76.126

21
6/07/57
Lancaster, SC
Paul Goldsmith
Ford 61.622

22
6/08/57
Los Angeles, CA
Eddie Pagan
Ford n/a

23
6/15/57
Newport, TN
Fireball Roberts Ford 60.687

24
6/20/57
Columbia, SC
Jack Smith
Chevrolet
58.045

25
6/22/57
Sacramento, CA
Bill Amick
Ford 59.580

26
6/29/57
Spartanburg, SC
Lee Petty
Olds
46.287

27
6/30/57
Jacksonville, NC
Buck Baker
Chevrolet
55.342

28
7/04/57
Raleigh, NC
Paul Goldsmith
Ford 75.693

29
7/12/57
Charlotte, NC
Marvin Panch
Ford 56.302

30
7/14/57
LeHi, AR
Marvin Panch
Pontiac
67.167

31
7/14/57
Portland, OR
Eddie Pagan
Ford 64.539

32
7/20/57
Hickory, NC
Jack Smith
Chevrolet
58.737

33
7/24/57
Norfolk, VA
Buck Baker
Chevrolet 47.987

34
7/30/57
Lancaster, SC
Speedy Thompson
Chevrolet 66.543

35
8/04/57
Watkins Glen, NY
Buck Baker
Chevrolet 83.064

36
8/04/57
Bremerton, WA
Parnelli Jones
Ford
38.959

37
8/10/57
New Oxford, PA
Marvin Panch
Ford
77.569

38
8/16/57
Old Bridge, NJ
Lee Petty
Olds
65.813

39
8/26/57
Myrtle Beach, SC
Gwyn Staley
Chevrolet 50.782

40
9/02/57
Darlington, SC
Speedy Thompson
Chevrolet 100.094

41
9/05/57
Syracuse, NY
Gwyn Staley
Chevrolet 80.591

42
9/08/57
Weaverville, NC
Lee Petty
Olds
67.950

43
9/08/57
Sacramento, CA
Danny Graves
Chevrolet 68.663

44
9/15/57
San Jose, CA
Marvin Porter
Ford
n/a

45
9/15/57
Langhorne, PA
Gwyn Staley
Chevrolet 72.759

46
9/19/57
Columbia, SC
Buck Baker
Chevrolet 60.514

47
9/21/57
Shelby, NC
Buck Baker
Chevrolet 53.699

48
10/05/57
Charlotte, NC
Lee Petty
Olds
51.583

49
10/06/57
Martinsville, VA
Bob Welborn
Chevrolet 63.025

50
10/12/57
Newberry, SC
Fireball Roberts Ford
50.398

51
10/13/57
Concord, NC
Fireball Roberts Ford
59.553

52
10/20/57
N. Wilkesboro, NC
Jack Smith
Chevrolet 69.902

53
10/27/57
Greensboro, NC
Buck Baker
Chevrolet 38.927

 

I've got an old 8mm converted to video tape of Curtis Turner winning a nascar race in a 56 ford convertible.....I didn't see it in the list somebody posted tho...
I am definetely NOT a Y-block guy [not that there's anything wrong with that] after owning a worn-out 55 ford with a 272, 3 speed O.D.....man, what an oil leaker! Couldn't keep a rear main seal in it to save my ass. I lived in fear of 55-57 chevys and Ponchos.
I also have the one of Cotton Owens ripping everybody a new asshole at Daytona with his 57 Pontiac.....averaged over 101 MPH!

 

Dang it Henry Floored. I wore my finger out scrolling reading your post.
Good read though.... Thanks

 

One of Dale Sr.'s first race cars was the 1956 Victoria K2 car painted pink,after google search I didn't find any thing on how it fared on the circuit or what was under the hood anyone got some facts to share?

 

For what its worth some 292,312 ford motors ran great from ford,most were dogs. A racer friend told me the cam timing was too retarded from facatory. Changing cam timing woke them up fine. One guy said advance the cam another said retard.I dont know which guy was right but the cam timing from ford was not ideal when tolerances stacked in the correct direction then you had a runner

 

I like the fact that Y-Blocks are all "side oilers". For those that have'nt, take a look at a bare "Y" block. It is built like the Brooklyn Bridge. That thing is gusseted top and bottom. Taking the valley cover off you realize that there is a sustantial upper girdle built right in there. But contrary to popular belief there is no excess iron anywhere it's all in there very precisely designed to give maximum strength with minimum weight. Next the idea of sealing off the top of an engine with the intake manifold when you are trying to catch compound angles (ie. cyl heads and block wall) suck to a certain degree IMO. It is my experience that where the heads meet the block is a great point for oil leaks to start. It may have allowed the SBC to be cheaper but you can't tell me it's better. It's interesting to note that the latest V8 engines are going back to a "dry" valley like the Ford and Lincoln Y- blocks.

Another interesting point: the Ford Y- Block has a 4.38" bore spacing, same as the later 221,289,302,351W,351C,400.

The Lincoln/ Heavy Truck Y- Blocks are bore spaced at 4.63" just like the 332- 428" FE's.

 

i would certainly hope that a f.e. would outrun a y-block since it is more modern and BIGGER.

dan

 

henry floored,
that is a great story.
i remember the name karol miller from back when. after reading the story, karol miller is one of my new heroes.
dan

 

How about the world's most bad ass Y Block?

 

According to the November 2008 issue of Hot Rod Deluxe, the best performance heads are '57-'59 312 heads with the ECZ casting number. In the article they upgraded these heads to 1.925/1.51 valves. It also states that '60-'62 292 heads will not accept the larger valves, but earlier heads with the ECB casting number will take the valves after some chamber work to unshroud them. They also stressed the porting work to improve the head flow, but warned that the mound in the exhaust port is only 1/8" thick so aggressive work there will penetrate the water passage.

They also installed a 312 crank, that was offset ground .125 into a 292 block to create 326cid, along with H-beam rods and lightweight forged pistons.

With a mild cam(.462 lift, [email protected]), single 720cfm 4bbl on a Blue Thunder intake, and small tube headers the engine made 288hp@5200rpm, where the run ended, but the power was still climbing. Torque was 335lbs-ft@3500rpm and the curve was flat as a pool table from the 3k starting point to the peak.

With a larger cam, multiple carburetion or a supercharger, 1-5/8" long tube headers and your Y-block should be plenty of motivation for a light model A or stripped down early falcon sleeper.

 

I saw that article also. I plan to try out their tricks as well. Solid advice, thanks.

 

Ok im back. Back in the sixties you could buy a new rebuilt short block for a 283 chevy or a 292 ford with new pistons turned crank ect. For $125.oo from Sears. My father had a 64 chev PK that I put one in it was bored .060 for 292 cubic inches. It so happend that the neighbor had a 63 ford unicab PK. And They bought a rebuilt 292 short block bored .040. After they where installed the new ford engine had considerable blow by and it even had a factory PCV valve. You could unplug the PCV on the 283 chev and it still didnt have puff back. They where both 2 barrel carbs . Even with more cubic inches and a larger carb and they had converted the crossover exhaust to dual glasspacks. That Chev would beat the ford by five car lengths i the quarter mile. And we probably raced 50 times. I beg to differ but a FE is not a y block. FE,s are good engines . The FE,s need a better exhaust and most where equipped with a sorry cruseomatic trans and tall 3.00 gears. Put a stick and decient gears and it was a different animal. It takes a bunch of work to make a Y block into a performer that will turn 6 grand. Double spring the points and stiffer valve springs om a 283 chev or any 260 thru 351 ford leave the rest stock and it will turn 8 grand easy.A Y block is like a 348 or 409 chev. They have lots of problems that can be overcome but if you did as much to the better designs you will recieve a greater return for your efforts. Anything can be done with any engine Barney Navarro built indy engines using Rambler Sixes but Why? I will give the Y blocks some credit. In the latter fifties early sixties the 312 fords at the local stock car track would give the 283 chevy guys fits they had more torque. When the 327,s became available that changed and a ford Y block never had a chance. OldWolf

 

This Northeast Y Block powered 37 Ford J-2 Stockcar was my Mothers first husbands car. Notice the tri-power air cleaners. From the stories I heard and read about this y-block it was a runner and it would have to start inverted many of times. This Y Block has won at Thompson Ct, Waterford Ct,Norwood Mass,Trenton NJ,Old Bridge NJ and has raced far as Virginia. The first J-2 cut down coupe won 21 features in 1953 with a flathead. I have a DVD on the first car being built and raced. Ill see if I can put that on youtube.

 

I couldnt download the tri-power picture. Sorry

 

Now imagine that in something tipping the scales at say 1900 .lbs.

I am picking up my second Y block this week.
Build one mild and one WILD like that weber freak or nature..

 

Yes a 352 FE is larger and newer than a Y block . However there was a Guy that had a 57 283 with a 300hp 327 intake and carter afb carb and home built hedders. this was in a 50 ford with a 3 speed. He would blow my doors off. His engine was SMALLER? OldWolf

 

This discussion was basically how to make the Y-Block perform...

On a Tradidtional Hot Rod site most of the engines we talk about are going to be obsolete.... So pointing out that the Y-Block won't beat a more modern engine seems kind of goofy to me...

It's you're classic apples to oranges situation...

I'd like to hear more about how to pep up the Y-Block though...

I could have built a cluster-fuck of SBCs for the money I have in my Flathead... And each of them would have handed me my hat... But that's not the point.

 

The HM 59 GRAND NATIONAL BIRDS used the MEL 430.

How much for a copy of your copy?

 

Seen a lot of Y blocks over the last 50 years.
Seen a lot of chewed up rocker shafts.
Seen a lot of backyard conversions where the oil was bypassed up the rear of the heads to feed the shafts.
it's no bullshit.
In 1965 or 67 Tex Smith Wrote a whole series on hopping up Y blocks with all the factory part numbers to select which bits are best to use. Track it down,read it and you will know everything about what works and what doesn't.
Such as ..the fact the oil pressure line to rockers was inadequate and caused rocker arm failure. Run a big cam and you too will learn .

Y blocks,because of the big supply here, were the V8 of choice in Australia for most rodders for decades and not much isn't known about them here.

Ford FE's have a Y shaped block too, so technically they are a Y block but not to be confused the smaller Y block ...

 

Read my post again. This time, please look at the next three paragraphs after the one you quoted.

My exact words were, " There is more hype and complete bullshit about the Y block & the "problem with oiling the rockers", and the "problem with spinning cam bearings" on the Internet than there is about Britney Spears."

I didn't say that the problem didn't exist...what I am saying is that there is enough bullshit on the Net to completely misrepresent the problem.

I've torn down plenty of Y blocks. Most have been untouched engines although some have had varying work done. The majority of them have had normal wear to the rocker assemblies. I've talked to many other Y block builders who have had the same experiences.

As I said, the passage design was not one of Ford's better ideas. Combine that with poor maintenance and non-detergent oil, and, in SOME cases, there was a problem. In many cases there was no problem at all.

I've seen the kits...along with other attempts to crutch the problem. The kits, most of them, are nothing but an uncontrolled leak which could cause problems elsewhere. Many people chose to ignore a true solution to the problem. Also, as I said, the Y block isn't the only engine ever to have any sort of design flaw.

My point was, and is, let's be objective about the engine...it's neither the complete piece of junk that many call it, nor is it the solution to all the world's problems that some of the fanatics would believe. It's a very good engine within its limits (and design limits, most notably the bore centers and cam-to-crank distance).

As far as your reference to the Tex Smith article...I've read it. Along with a number of other sources & references, too. I've even built a few Y blocks with and without "big cams", too. Amazing! And, believe it or not, there are actually a few Y blocks here in the United States. If your intent was to insult or belittle me, don't bother...