Technical Cadillac flathead horsepower tricks

Its not over until its over and there has got to be a little more still out there!!!

 

I thought about running a 2x2 intake with those Ansen sidexside carb adapters to make it a 2x4's but Strombergs are high dolla'

And I'n not fully sure you can clear the exhaust with them without a pedestal spacer under each one. Then you may have the carbs sitting silly high and look out of place.

 

I know we have more, let's keep this going!

 

Buddy if we want to get more HP out, do we need to consider how to increase the oil pressure in these engines.
I'd be interested to know anything useful in that department.

 

Russ, I seem to remember a thread you did about your oiling system. Maybe you could explain it to us? Or am I wrong on this?

I'm still interested in seeing the intakes everyone is running. Anything really different out there?

 

The oil stuff you are referring to was more about engine block points and what they were for, it turns out there is a trick to getting oil back upto the lifters to prolong wear life. I have not followed that up as yet but I do have another engine that will most likely show me how it has been done, I just need to pull off the intake manifold and follow a couple of lines in to the valley.

My point was that original cadillac flathead engines seem to run quite low oil pressure and this would not be helpful if one of these engines was being squeezed for extra HP and the oil side of thing were not considered.

Surely a higher volume of oil and hence pressure increase would be part of any plan to ensure longevity under extra stress of increased power output, RPM and torque etc.

I was mainly interested to know if anybody has addressed this and how.
The oil pump obviously needs to produce more flow.
Has anybody done a swap or adapted a different pump etc.

I read some where that a very vulnerable part of a engine running and the value of oil pressure is actually down at low RPM during take off especially if the flywheel weight has been lightened.

Low revs equates to slow oil pump flow and big load on bearing at take off.
Worst of all is at the stall point where there can be a backlash on the bearings and vertually no oil pressure especially if oil pressure is low to start off with.

Just thinking out aloud.

 

Thats easy ! A oil pump is basicly a hydraulic pump with a bypass to controll the oil pressure ........... Easy !! just increase the spring pressure slightly on the bypass valve to increase the oil pressure ..... to do that , just shim the stock spring a touch (old cheezy way !).....or the proper way is to find a stronger spring to replace the stock one . Take your stock spring and get it tested for pressure and then move up from there ...CAUTION !! try to keep the length the same as the original ! (In case of coil bind make sure the valve or ball fully clears bypass hole when in full bypass mod ). length helps a little but its the thickness of the wire size that counts and test the new sping as well to make sure it isnt to strong !.....as for a pump because for street , a pump is a pump is a pump , its the bypass that does the work that controls it if you break it down .... just like a hydraulic system ..... Long ago Offy sold a spring kit you could buy to hop up your stock oil pump to get more pressure out of it , olds , caddy etc ... And yes you can get into it even more with hole sizes and gears and bla bla bla .... but for street hop up , stronger spring in your bypass will do the trick ..... and put a good filter on it too ! and put it "BEFORE" the oil goes to your bearings , that way it will keep the crap out , chewing them up and last much longer in the long run !......Been there done that !!!!..... Steve

 

2x2 intake with those Ansen sidexside carb adapters

...ummm... that's about $100. per HP.

 

Thanks Steve, that is good info, I will look into doing something with that spring idea when I get back onto my engine.

 

Steve, that's good info.

What else is out there- I know there are a lot of people we have not heard from yet, so post info or pics, and let's keep this going!

 

G'day all.. I've been tardy getting back to you Zibo re Dizzy.. sparks are not my forte.. the missus still hasn't forgiven me for hardwiring the fuses in the car when boyfriend / girlfriend.. caught on fire as she was punching it down the freeway.. I didn't care, it was too much fun blowing the fuse's in the 1st place & I'm not going to tell you bout that.. So re the dizzy, my understanding is that the local guy who does these conversions for early models ( though he's not done a Caddy ) just uses swapmeet aftermarket Chev HEI's.
38Flattie.. Inlets. I went up country to see a pickup put together by another guy.. he had no fresh tips as he'd bought the mill, reco'd with 600 miles on it, from a restorer type but he had done the old skool trick of blanking off the stock carby mounting & drilling / welding new carby mount, fore & aft of the original, for a lobuck dual setup.. didn't look pretty but kinda went with his Rat theme.
There's another, Rat, which has featured in some of the Kiwi mags.. the exhausts are upside down Y's, exiting vertically above the mill, baffled. It's either just for exhibitions or they have no rego laws there re exhaust gas exiting ahead of the drivers position. The neat piece of this one is the inlet. Since the exhausts are up, out of the way, the inlet runners are a simple set of 90 degree curves, running back out over the the heads a'la your more usual exhaust headers, & with a brace of sidedraught webers per side.
Back to Sparks & Oil ( how's he gonna combine these 2 ?). Yup a pump is a pump & a shim will raise the pressure, not sure that equates to volume though but have read somewhere, in one of the "military" operating instructions for the Cadilac, where it warned re operating with "excessive" oil pressure.. no reason was given though but read on..
Sparks & Oil. I hope I'm not repeating previous threads but If you haven't seen the following article it's worth a read, http://ssclassiccomponents.com/gear_20080103.pdf ( Discussion paper / PDF )
In summary, 37 - 48 La Salle / Cadillac sacrificial Bronze idler gear that connects the Oil pump & Distributor ( see ) to the cam gear.. multiple failures, gears chewed up & dumped in the sump. Culprit.. aftermarket replacement Oil pumps with straight cut gears binding , versus original helical, and loading up on the bronze gear, hence sacrificial. Also discuss's impact of post 2005 low sulpur & phospherous oil ( a common complaint on sidevalve & Y block Ford forums.. cams chewed out in 200 miles). For us down under, diesel oil is the way to go as still has, for the moment, the "old" formula.
All discussed ( including need for a filter before, not after ) but what's important is that these guys developed a solution & you can buy it on an exchange basis but Whew.. US$1295 bucks ! Be nice if you could just buy a part of their kit i.e. the proper helical cut gears. Oh yes.. it also gives a reason why Oil p. should stay at 18 to 25 psi ( that's not even bladder psi ! ), Mild Steel Camshafts? Can someone expand on that and.. are the Egge / Mad dog Racing cams in the same boat.
Also see http://ssclassiccomponents.com/ as they do $125- water pump exchanges with a 5 year warranty.
Cheers all
Wayne

 

Nice article Wayne, so guys where can we get a reliable bronze gear at the right price?

 

Good stuff, Wayne!

John Washburn was kind enough to share this rear main seal tip with me, that he found on another board. It seems that a Mercedes seal, part # 001 997 12 41, is a very good way to go. Here are tips to the install:

We dropped the rear
main cap, loosened the center and front main caps jus enough to let the
crank "droop" a bit, and pulled the old seal out. To refit the Mercedes
seal (which he purchased at NAPA) we used an inexpensive device (also
purchased at NAPA) that works like a Chinese finger toy. It consists of a
spring clamp which is connected to a short wire with a loop around one end.
You put one end of the seal in the spring clamp, pass the wire over and
through the main seal slot, and slowly pull the new seal into place. I was
feeding one end he was pulling on the other. We could tell that the seal
was in place by the resistance and feel of it all. We (gently) pressed it
fully into the groove using the crankshaft so that the rear main cap fitted
correctly and torqued it all down. Hasn't leaked since. I installed mine
with the engine on a stand and the crankshaft out--big difference.
Two additional comments: (1) leave about an 1/8" of seal proud of the main
bearing mating surface, both sides. That will help compress the seal into
the groove when everthing is bolted together; (2) be sure to seal the side
grooves well. I used a foam gasket material that is available from NAPA in
aerosol can. The OEM gasket set will give you two cork strips but they are
difficult to install--esp with the crank still in the engine.

 

Buddy, any chance of seeing a pic of that tool please.

 

Russ, I believe this is the tool. It's called a Sneaky Pete, and sells for about $6.50

 

Nice!

 

C'mon guys, i really want to see your custom intakes, please!

 

Wayne, that's a good article, and has some very valid points. All the oil pump rebuild kits i can find have straight cut gears, but they are $50, vs $1250.

So what's the answer? Run the recommended oil pressure, or higher pressure, and find better bronze gears?

 

Russ, I just re-read your Remote Oil Filter to Cadillac Flathead thread. Great info!!

I wondered if you could post the pics Tom sent you about the filter system?

 

I check back, but I am locked out of all my folders right now, with a computer breakdown.

 

Ouch, russ, that's gotta hurt!

Has anyone tried switching to a lighter flywheel? Electric power steering been done on these yet?

 

I have had a small amount of weight taken off a 1938 flywheel I may use on my project but it would be less than 5 lbs which was just taken from all over.

Never used the electric power steering, but I have mounted a saginaw pump to the front of my engine which I hope will work out OK when the time comes to drive my project out of the shop.

 

I was thinking of modifeying a modern flywheel to fit, as the stock ones are so heavy. I just wondered if anyone had done it yet? I'm going to balance the entire rotating assembly when i am done. I just wonder if it will be ok, as i will be losing so much weight off of the assembly.

I'm going to use a mr2 electric power steering pump, with a remote resevoir, and a 605 box. Finding mounting spots on the engine for everything is tough, plus i think i'll rob less power this way.

 

Just to let you guys know, I updated my site with a mix match of info I have found on these engines here and there. Most of it I am sure you guys are aware of, but just in case have a look.

I am afraid I didn't keep track of where I found most of the stuff so if it is yours, please let me know and I will give credit immediately.

www.designrodeo.com

 

I took measurments of each engines , 37 and a later one 42 , both block bolt patterns are the same . There are only small diferences on the bell housings , starter mounting pattern is a little diferent . ...... Also as there is such a big problem with finding or dealing with a manufacture that has a decent kit that works .. NOT !... I am just going to go ahead and making my own kit that will take a chevy tranny behind a flatty caddy and be done with it ! ...... so if any one else may be interested I will keep you posted ....Steve

 

Steve, are you making it for the auto, or stick?

Like to see the pics!

 

Keep at it Steve, I want to do something as well if I had more time I would have done it by know, I just dont want to wish for too much time as I could wish myself into unemployment.
I hope to have my side of tranny bellhousing things sorted this coming fall.

 

I will make it so it will take both , Auto or stick chev tranny , Just as if you were going to bolt up to a back of a sbc ........ Steve

 

Beautiful, I can not wait to see it, just make sure you can advise us on which flexplate/starter we can use or for a stick I guess the original flywheel lightened a tad would be good.

Since flywheel plus torque convertor dont seem to be the right combination so a new starter and ring gear would need to be worked out.

 

Steve, I can't wait to see them.

This is a little of topic, but Barry Burrell and Cyclonekevin just got my intake and heads done. Kevin was kind enough to get them all polished for me, and shipped them out today. Time for carbs. And then.....

Next up, caddie flattie tri-power!