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Chevy upper control arm shim question

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Truckedup, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,660

    Truckedup
    Member

    I'm working on the front suspension of this El Camino.All new bushings,ball joints,etc.I'm roughing in the wheel alignment with levels and a tape measure so I can drive it to an alignment shop.Right now I have about zero degree camber and what I think is 2 degrees positive castor.On the caster,although I 've done this type job in the past,my mind has gone blank about which way is postive castor.I got the upper control arm with more shims on the rear bolt of the two upper control arm bolts so the upper ball joint is tilted towards the rear.Is this correct? thanks.
     
  2. Those should be "unequal" arms if you have a '64 - '72 Elky. The front bolt changes mainly your camber and the rear is mainly caster. The front of the arm is pretty straight, the rear has a curve to it when viewed straight down.

    Just vision how the upper ball joint reacts when you jockey the shims around. Positive caster kicks the ball joint towards the rear of the car. I believe that adding shims will make it more negative.

    There is really no set way of knowing exactly what you have for caster unless you have gages and a turn table handy. 2 degrees is pretty close to spec from what I recall from my wheel alignment days. You can eyeball the camber and use a level if you wish to get it in the ball park. I used to do a rough toe adjustment by eye, sighting down the sidewalls of the front tires to just see a whisker of the rears. Center and lock your steering wheel (a block of wood is fine between the seat and steering wheel) and have a go at it.

    Bob
     
  3. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,660

    Truckedup
    Member

    I don't have turntables.A length of conduit bent to 20 degrees,line it up as best I can and turn the wheels right and left using a degree marked level on the wheel hub.
     
  4. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,948

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Usually Camber is adjusted by putting in or removing equal thickness shims front and back. On this Less shims for positive and more to go negative. Caster being set by moving a shim from front to back to gain positive or back to front to go negative.

    To get it to the front end shop I'd get the camber close with the level (bounce the car a few times before checking to settle out the suspension) set the toe in with a tape measure and not worry a lot about caster except to get where I thought it should be.
    You need the camber somewhat close and the toe in pretty close as not to eat a new set of tires on the way to the front end shop but while it may not track perfectly the caster isn't real important for that trip.,

    If you trailer it to the front end shop an eye ball job is close enough.

    The front end mechanic isn't going to care how close you got it at home unless you are looking for an "atta boy, you got it right on". He will put the gages on, check the settings, and then decide to add, remove or move shims.

    One trick when you set the toe in at home. Center the steering wheel straight ahead and then eyeball down the tires to sight a line to the back tires. Make your initial adjustments on the side that looks off by sighting a line to the back tires and it will be easier to get the steering wheel centered. I did that every time I rebuilt a front end and it saved me a lot of time trying to get the wheel centered.

    By the way it looks like you already know what needs to be done and have already done it up good enough to get it to the alignment shop.
    Make sure that every bolt is tight and every cotter key is in place before you take it on the roa
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2009

  5. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,660

    Truckedup
    Member

    Ok,so I did it right,more shims on the back bolt.So I got some positive castor.
     
  6. You did good for a home grown alignment job. Due to the arms not being symmetrical, anything that you do at the front of the arm impacts the rear as well.

    When the arms are symmetrical, you can jockey the shims around without putting the car back on the rack. I've done that countless times to tweak out a drift or pull condition. To change caster and not impact the camber, whatever you take out of the rear (for example), put it back on the front and the camber remains the same.

    In general, if you can get the car to the shop without fighting it on the way, it'll go up on the rack and let the alignment tech do his magic. I've had customers bring in cars with crazy camber and toe angles where it would pull the slide on the rack over to one side.

    Bob
     
  7. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,948

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Amen to that, I've seen some come in that hit a pot hole that drove in sideways.

    Usually if you save the shim stacks and install them the same way you took them out you are close enough to get to the alignment shop.
     
  8. dirybyrd
    Joined: Feb 7, 2009
    Posts: 88

    dirybyrd
    Member

    what you really need to be worried about is the toe angle.....toe wears tires way faster then the camber....caster does not wear tires........just get the toe close and drive it like ya stole it to the alignment shop.....
     
  9. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,660

    Truckedup
    Member

    The toe in is 1/8 inch using my caveman tools.I live in a rural area,lucky that the alignment shop is only 2 miles down the road.They have older equipment but have a good reputation and don't mind setting up lowered or modified cars.
     
  10. I worked in one very reputable front end shop where they set the toe using the eyeball method! No gages, nothin'. So you are deffo in the ball park.

    I did lots of hot rods, stock cars, drag cars where I worked. We had an old Bear rack that was very basic and simple. I'd set up my toe gages every morning, zero them out and I was good to go.

    Bob
     
  11. Bad toe will scrub a set of tires bald in no time. It will also produce the most ill-handling ride imaginable.

    I used to have guys come in with cars all too often with a DIY front end job and the tires were featheredged where I was afraid I'd get a cut off the tread.

    Bob
     

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