History Chrysler and Fiat - Will it Work?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/20/AR2009012000472.html?hpid=topnews

What do you think?

Rich

 

Disaster waiting to happen

 

Yes.

 

I don't see a future for it

 

who knows in todays market..but the banks sure aint going to help em and neither is the government..so cant blame them for trying

 

I never thought American Auto manufacturers selling little foriegn cars with thier name on them was a good idea. what does Chevy sell??? mitsubishi's ?? if I'm going to buy a foriegn car I'll just get a toyota, no need to put a chevy bowtie on it.

 

Sure, Chrysler is not broke. Their sales are down but so are all the companies and Toyota being one who is also hurt despite the medias attempt at selling cars for them through the news. The news media which is the #1 enemy of the North American car companies who keep talking about Big gas guzzling SUVs while I am driving a 40+ mpg (imp) Pt Turbo Gt and Ford and Gm have cars in this range and better as well. Warranties are better than they have been in years. Meanwhile Americans and Canadians keep buy Aisan brands of cars and some European ones as well and then wonder why their grandchildren cant find a job. Hard to feel sorry for them. Fiat and Chrysler? Two major companies. Makes more sense than Gm and Chrysler. I know all the Chevy boys were standing behind their garages hoping for a hemi. Nice try guys but no cigar. ;>). It is the traitors who destroy a country , not always the enemy

 

Seems to be a match made for the wrong reasons. Given that Fiat's world market is spotty at best, it seems like yet another poorly managed decision by Chrysler.

Both Chevy and Ford have made similar decisions, but their choices of who to partner up with were based on companies with strong world markets.

 

The Aveo is a Daewoo, which is owned by GM.

 

They are hoping that the can bring the Fiat 500 over here and hope that it will gain cult status like the bug or mini did plus they have electric version to

http://www.digimods.co.uk/images/Virtualcarimages/cars/FIAT5003.jpg

 

GM spent 2 billlion to partner with Fiat in 2000, then spent another 2 billion to get out of the deal in 2005.

 

They're trying stuff 10 lbs of dung into a 5 lb bag.
US loser plus European loser equals ????

 

For those interested, check out this current list of "badge engineering".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_badge_engineered_vehicles

 

It could work, it depends on what they do. Fiat owns Alfa, Lancia and Ferrari. There has been talk of Alfa wanting to come back to the US for some time. The hookup with Chrysler gives them an existing distribution and dealer network. Fiat could bring some of their cars also, like the 500. Fiat has lots of experience with smaller platforms and small diesel engines. On the flip side, Fiat has a worldwide presence that Chrysler doesn't so they could distribute certain Chrysler products (like Jeep) to markets Chrysler isn't in now. Back in the K-car days I think Fiat made the alloy cylinder heads for Chrysler. If they are smart and play to each others strengths, it could work.

Or, it could blow up in their faces and end up a giant miasmic pile of crap.

Kurt O.

 

Seems like a match made in HEAVEN!

Can't lose! No, REALLY, gubment says so!!

 

"They are hoping that the can bring the Fiat 500 over here and hope that it will gain cult status like the bug or mini did plus they have electric version"

Based on BMW's Mini sales, they might have a shot at it with the Chrysler dealership network. But given the problems Saturn dealerships had servicing SAABs, I think it may make sense for FIAT strategically, but it will be a disaster once implemented. Something as simple as lack of a common parts ordering and diagnostic system will be a problem. Oh, and everything is metric, so you'll need new tools.

I actually really like the new FIAT 500, but the last time FIATs and PEUGOTs were sold in Canada the salt turned them into piles of scrap in 3-4 years. But the 500 is the first FIAT anyone was wanted in decades, so what happens after the novelty wears off?

 

Oh my gawd, what if the suits get it backwards and put Fiat motors in their 300s and Magnum wagons?! Ooops.

 

The Fiat 5000 is a niche market, Chrysler needs to move beyond niche market cars and start gaining mass appeal again.

Sure it may sell hot and heavy in certain countries, but if you were to look at the general market of those countries, it is easy to understand why.

 

I can see it all laid out like a roadmap........Fiat and Alpha Romeo will enter nascar with a gay grand prix driver with a funny accent and moustache and hilarity will ensue.

Then Tony Stewart's team will get lured over and they'll have this awesome FIAT/Home Depot Fix It Again Tony ad campaign.

Oh man it's gonna be great

 

NOW your thinking like a wall-street executive! Good job, go ahead and write yourself another $ billion dollar bonus check!

 

they used to sell some other brand. my friend drives one. Suzuki maybe?

 

On the other hand, if they start putting the 5.7 HEMI in Alfas things could get pretty interesting. They weren't actually bad cars as long as you didn't drive them when it was cold, wet or on salted roads.

 

Alfa does make some sexy new sheetmetal.....

 

That is probably closer to the truth. As is, the big 3 don't have a chance in hell of meeting the proposed fuel economy standards.

 

What about Japanese badged vehicles made by Americans? LIke say the Mazda Tribute?

 

Chrysler needs to get more into the world market. This could work if it is done right. So far it has not happened with Mercedes or Renault maybe the third time it gets done right.

 

ya I was thinking the same thing put out one of these like they did the PT cruiser !

 

Sure it will work. Two losers teaming up has ALWAYS been a successful combination.

-Brad

 

Its a no lose for Fiat, they get access to US dealership network for their cars. If it doesn't work out they are first in line to steal the Jeep brand and walk away for pennies.

 

This thread's one I was expecting not to show up here but I've been on both Chrysler and Fiat web sites and each group is ranting about how the other partner is going to ruin the company of their choice.

Personally I like both of them and would like to see it work out. Not that I'm much of a new car guy (most new cars have soul of a cheap coffeemaker) but both Fiat and Chrysler have offered up some cars that at least caught my attention in the last few years. And, since I am not going to drive one of my old cars to Mexico everyday I wouldn't mind having some car like a 500 to drive.

I've obviously had a bunch of Fiats and they are pretty good cars when you compare them to similar cars from the same time (they all rusted like crap in the 70s).

All carmakers are royally screwed right now and I'd expect about half of them won't be around when this is all over.

About the only interesting comment I found amid all the ranting was this, which to me speaks alot of truth:

Editorial from The Truth About Cars web site:

By Robert Farago
January 20, 2009 -

Breaking news: Fiat has just signed a “non-binding term sheet” with ChryCo. The
Italian automaker will acquire a 35 percent interest in Chrysler for… nothing.
No cash. No assets. Niente. And yet the Chrysler - Fiat deal comes complete with
the United Auto Workers’ (UAW) blessing. It’s a nice thought: a global alliance
to pull Chrysler’s fat from the fire, save the taxpayer’s bacon and uncook the
UAW’s golden goose. But there’s zero chance of Fiat riding to the rescue of
Chrysler. It’s just another part of Chrysler’s Big Lie.

Adolph Hitler said The Big Lie was effective because most people “would not
believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.
Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their
minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may
be some other explanation.” In this case, the lie is the idea that Chrysler is a
viable automaker.

The fact that the company is utterly bankrupt without any chance of recovery is,
obviously, besides the point. As long as there is hope that Chrysler has a
future, the general public and their fear-mongering elected representatives will
cling to the fiction that Chrysler can– indeed should– continue to exist.

To perpetuate that myth, to protect its federal lifeline, Chrysler must generate
plausible possibility. Hence the stream of “news” coming out of Auburn Hills in
recent weeks. Canada’s Magna Corporation may purchase Chrysler’s minivan plant.
Nissan may produce a small car for Chrysler, and rebadge Dodge Ram pick-up
trucks as Titans. A Chinese carmaker may buy unwanted (not to say unused)
tooling for the soon-to-dead PT Cruiser. And now… Fiat buys into Chrysler.

In reality, Magna may want Chrysler’s Windsor minivan plant, but the company
isn’t stupid enough to pay anything for it. Not when they can pick it up for
pennies on the dollar after ChryCo’s collapse. In reality, Nissan is in deep
trouble; it’s not going to build anything for Chrysler without [non-existent]
cash on the nail. It’s also in no position to remount an attack on a market
segment that’s both crowded and cratered (just ask Toyota).

In reality, China doesn’t need the PT Cruiser. And in reality, the Fiat deal has
nothing to offer. Without any cash investment by the Italian automaker, without
a single production-ready Italian vehicle on the horizon to lure Americans into
empty, abandoned Chrysler showrooms, this non-deal does nothing whatsoever to
ensure Chrysler’s long term viability.

The underlying causation for this non-news is simple enough. Lipstick. Pig.
Apply.

On February 17, Chrysler will present their term paper to Congress: “How I Spent
Uncle Sam’s $4b” (a.k.a. “The Three Headed Dog Ate my Automaker&#8221. Chrysler’s
representatives will attempt to prove that the company can [now] be restructured
and resurrected to live a long, happy life. See? Things are happening! We’re
building for the future!

Of course, Chrysler’s “business plan” was, is and will be complete BS.

CEO Bob Nardelli knew Chrysler was doomed to the dole back in December, back
when he told Congress his employer could turnaround Chrysler’s fortunes with
“just” $7b worth of federal loans. As is the way of such things, that was then.
This is now. By mid-February, Boot ‘em Bob’s boys will unveil phase II of their
grand plan for Chrysler’s renaissance: get out of the manufacturing business.

The new plan is the same as the original plan: keep the brands and distribution
network. Sell vehicles made by others rebadged as Chryslers. Limited capital and
engineering required.

Meanwhile and in any case, Chrysler needs the same lifeblood as any other going
enterprise: cash. Badge engineering and branding be damned; new car sales aren’t
going to provide Chrysler with the funds it needs to sustain its operations and
pay for its ongoing liabilities. Not now. Not later. Most likely, never. Asset
sales won’t do the job, either. And Fiat’s sure as Hell not providing
operational liquidity.

Blow away the smoke, pack away the mirrors, allow owner Cerberus to insulate
themselves from accountability for their actions, and it’s clear that Chrysler
has one source– and one source only– of cash: the U.S. taxpayer.

As any good politician knows, to fool some of the people all of the time, you
need to change your story frequently. In other words, The Big Lie must be
sustained by a steady diet of big ideas.

When it comes to Chrysler’s ongoing call on the public purse, the biggest of
these is the Chrysler - GM merger. The concept: forget Chrysler and GM. We need
to save American manufacturing! This American Leyland strategy is a stupendously
bad plan which would make The General like Citibank: a company too big to fail
with operating divisions that can never be properly integrated.