Low buck, home built dual plane HEMI intake

pardon my ignorance, but doesn't the chroming process consist of dipping the piece in a charged solution in order to plate it? Why did they say it wouldn't plate?

awesome work by the way

 

It will work very well. Tri power will take a mod to the two end carbs (no power circuits and reduce pump and a rejet) but that has nothing to do with the manifold design. it is just excellant. How the heck would a computer know how to design an manifold? You need a person. When i grow up i want to be like Dan, He is a very gifted and talented craftsman and my hat is off to him.
There is more thought and planning in that intake than ever was in the orignal 331 intake. of that i am sure. I never pay atention to naysayers because i have learned that to a man without any exception not one has ever built anything. They are just arm chair quarterbacks blowin smoke. This manifold is a very very good unit. Well thought out and well built. I am most in impressed.
Don

 

How the heck would a computer know how to design an manifold? You need a person.

...someone better go tell Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Audi, Renault, Subaru, BMW and all the F1 teams because that's what they've been using for the last 20 years.

 

"someone better go tell Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, Audi, Renault, Subaru, BMW and all the F1 teams because that's what they've been using for the last 20 years. "
No they use a program a cad cam variation to do the laborious math and drawing and modeling but a real live person does the design and labours over the protoype and tests it in real conditions and goes back and forth solving the little details as they pop up. A computer like a table saw can do nothing in and of itself. It is a tool, a screwdriver in the arsenal of the technical person involved in the project. A great aide in speeding up the process and a time saving from the laborious processes but can an excellant in fact above excellant manifold be built without a computer. Absolutley. Can a computer build a manifold by itself without a person? Absolutley not . A computer knows only one question. It looks like this. ????????

And now for the 64 dollar question which i shall answer before you ask. Do i know anyone in any of the above mentioned companies and projects? As a matter of fact yes. Two of them. One at GM in Detriot and one from BMW formula 1 (Munchen) Both are very practical down to earth people who would have no trouble with this hand built intake project. In fact i think they would be amazed and would certainly appreciate the skill and thought and good design it pocesses. In fact the GM guy once raced in the Can Am series using a Merury outboard Black Max engine for power. At the time I dont think he even had a calcultor. He thrives on hearing it cant be done!

 

Ditto!

*edit*

You know, after reading this (see link), I take that back!
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/hemi/chrysler-hemi.html

~Jason

 

I just don't have the patience to explain it, but no, not really.

 

I will say that I just opened this thread and the in-progress pics looked like shit. Adding some style to it in the end looks pretty damn good. I would suggest a powdercoat called "Bead Blast Aluminum" looks like the real thing.

 

it's a little more complicated than that. i don't work at a chrome shop but i used to build the racks that the parts went on. a couple of my friends do work at a chrome shop and i do know that many chrome shops will not do wheels for the same reason it would be tough to get even coverage on this intake. it would just be the nooks and crannies that would be hard to get very well... besides all that, as nice as this thing looks it would be a TON more work to get it actually smooth enough for chrome.

 

I wish he would make me a single log 4x2 for my Desoto Hemi! That's actually my next project. Absolutely great work there guys. The only thing I ask is to PLEASE take video of the first run and post here. That is the icing on the cake.

 

Well, I freakin love it myself. Id chrome that sumbich to the max................Dam, I want one for my MEL

 

I'm digging that intake...as stated before...this is what true hot rodding is all about!!

If you can't find and/or afford what you need then you make what you need.

I await the final product....

 

I like it a lot.

My guess is, it will work better than a U-fab...

 

i'll try to get some video. in the spring. hopefully Dan keeps it long enough to drive it some. he has a bad habit of selling stuff as soon as or just before it is done. once the "build" (or at least the interesting parts) part is done he loses interest and is on to something else. he'd rather be building something than driving something. i can hardly even get him to go to car shows very often.

is that your car in your avatar? i saw that thing at the HAMB Drags. blown 430 Lincoln motor! BADASS!!!! ..and i'm not even a Ford guy, let alone Lincoln. it's good to see something outside of the norm that is'nt just plain goofy.

we are hoping so.

 

That thing is beautiful! That's what hot rodding is all about, and if anybody ever doubts that he's the real thing because he drives a "tupperware" car, all he needs to do is point to that intake.
I'd take that over a "more efficient" $1000+ mail order intake any day. Just think how much fun he'll have at the shows listening to the hot rod wannabe's telling each other how they'd have done it.

 

Computers are very useful in analyzing flow, design, etc. The way I read the questioning within this thread, will it work as cool as it looks. Seems like a valid thought, I always thought that successful intake design needs to be somewhat smooth and flowing plenums.

I think it looks great! I look forward to hearing how it runs.

Buckle

 

don't forget to VOTE for your favorite tech thread. i believe voting ends TOMORROW!

 

That is sooooo cool! I love it. Maybe the Caddy needs something like that HMMM!

 

hey I have a picture of henrys flow machine (computer)d exhaust and intake somewhere will look it up, looked like the sewer lines off the second story from the office if memory serves me correct

 

smooth turns vrs a box or plenum.
Ok . When you try to turn moving air it resists. it is not unlike a line of people in that if you try to move too much too fast and turn it too quick it piles up on itself and goes almost nowhere. If you make a box or plenum or large space and take routes off of that the efficiency comes up dramatically. There are always some losses but much better than trying to make it follow a tight narrow curve. I believe that it is very difficult to bend high speed air more that about 7 degrees. The study of this is called fluid dynamics and these principlals are well identified in most books on the subject. When Dan built his manifold he had two large plenums or boxes since he was building a dual plane. The port runners run off this. This is right in lne with what an engineering book would teach you. Air flow is a very strange animal. It is not totally predictable yet even with the most sofisticated computer programs although we cetainly know more than we did. Anyone who has worked with a flow bench knows in their heart that first feeling of shock and dismay when you discover that smooth and beautiful and shiny and flowing doesnt always work. Some people never get beyond it and are the poster boys for "Dont confuse me with the facts . My mind is already made up!" Others collapse in disbelief but then commence to set a path of discovery for themselves to find out what works and why. Much has changed since we started using these machines and we have learned a lot. Some of it we probably wish we didnt know . There is that haunting feeling that before you had the flow bench the work you put out, no matter how pretty, was not as good as it should have been. Not much one can do after the fact except resolve to improve. Dan's intake is almost identical in design to most stock dual planes and it would appear to me that he has used the original at least to some extent to get an idea of how it should be. I believe it will work very well because of that. The box or plenum will fill and the runners will truck the air fuel dutifully to each cylinder in a relatively even manner. Also with the dual plane design the double suck or draw of the 5,7 cylinder sequence on one section or barrel of the carburation is avoided. It is not a race manfold but it will do well in spite of that. I think the critics are a bit hard on him. I am sure any manufacturer would be impressed by his design and talent. I vote we give the man a cigar!
Don d

 

A truly impressive peice of work. Will it work? Of course it will!!! Will it help set world speed records?--Well, probably not, but thats not what this was about. For all you nay sayers out there--build something of equivalent technical complexity, then come back and pick the mans work apart if you still feel that its necessary. I think the fabrication and execution is fantastic.---Brian

 

You sound pretty experienced here. I don't know if I'm reading the same thread as all the people high-fiving and lighting up fat ones already. I think everyone is in agreement that the fab work looks awesome and it looks over all completely bad-ass. The questions put forth seem thoughtful and polite from all parties. I still say put the stink-sticks away until it runs decent and produces decent power.

Buckle

 

lets talk about this tripower setup! That's not any stock 3x2 setup is it? its 2 industrial WWs on the ends, correct? I had a one of those lying around and have since aquired another - planned them for a 3 deuce setup and just recently discovered what they are from.

What all did you do to make them full secondary carbs? block of the idle circuts and... anything more?

Thanks,

Pax

 

Notice my avatar... I'm a Stromberg WW FREAK! I have at least seven on a shelf behind me, and four of the Carter look-alikes. Hell, I have more in the garage, and just took a picture of the Edelbrock linkage for WW 3x2 I bought off of the Dave mentioned in this thread for someone.

The secret to using these in a 3x2 is to make sure they ALL seal really well - no "loose" throttle shafts. Coat the inside of the throat bores where the butterflies touch, and open and close said butterflies until they've worn down themselves and the bore walls enough to seal FULLY, so when the carbs are closed NO air comes through.

That's pretty much ALL you have to do. You don't even have to block off the idle circuits this way - if there's NO air going through the carbs, there's no suction to pull any fuel through - even at idle - unless there's a leak somewhere.

LEAKING AIR IS THE BIGGEST ENEMY OF THE 3X2 SETUP, PERIOD.

Of course, you'll want to pull the chokes off the outboard carbs, and leave the center as-is. You may want to find a WW from a Ford or Buick or something to that effect to rob the choke off of 'em for your center carb.

Most WWs have a divorced choke, where the bimetal coil is located in a pocket on the intake manifold, and when it heats up, it pushes a rod straight up which deactivates the choke. The carbs off the Fords and Buicks (and some others) have an attached choke housing on the side of the carb, kind of like you see on a QuadraJet or Holley electric choke, and of course the bimetal lives in there, but there's a threaded fitting on the housing that a hot air tube attaches to to heat the bimetal in order to deactivate the choke. The Holley Universal Electric Chokes can be easily adapted to fit in that housing if you want to run one, or you can certainly find a spot to tap and run another hot air tube from if you wish to retain a hot air choke.

~Jason

 

Any idea what this manifold weighs?

Just out of curiosity?

Tom

 

Is this running yet?

 

nope. the whole car is coming apart for paint. it won't be running till spring. he does'nt want to have it finished and just sitting so he is timing it so that it will be completed about the time he is actually able to drive it.

 

Make sure he takes lots of pics of the linkage on those WWs. Lots of people ask me about that, and I wouldn't mind seeing his linkage as well.

~Jason

 

I really cant wait, can you please have him hurry ! lol

I think this is going to work great and function well as in intake and perform well.
I recently got a Edmunds 2x4 manifold for a 331 and when I was looking at it comparing it to Dans, Dans looks alot smoother as far as flow goes and potentialy much sexier.

It would be interesting to see a side by side comparison with another manifold.


If you guys want to try that, when your ready flag me down and you can try that Edmunds out and see. Getting definative and objective results would be good for the nay-sayers but seat of the pants is usually better for a street car any way.

 

he is planning to "fix" a couple spots in order to have an even smoother flow. for now he is distracted by other little projects on the car that need to be taken care of before it gets painted.

 

Back from the dead. . .


Is it running yet?