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3 questions for English wheel experts.

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by SpookyDad, Dec 25, 2008.

  1. SpookyDad
    Joined: Jul 11, 2008
    Posts: 137

    SpookyDad
    Member
    from Cypress TX

    I am trying to decide on what material to use for the fenders on my truck. I have some 16 gauge hot rolled and some 20 gauge galvanized. I am not worried about the paint job. It is military flat paint and if it scratches or flakes a little, a dab with a brush is fine. The fenders will look closest to a Ford AA truck.

    My available tools are: a reinforced HF Wheel, an air planishing hammer, Eastwood shotbag and 2 1/2" mallet, Eastwood shrinker/stretcher set, an anvil, 30" railroad rail, concave bottom of a cut-off CO2 cylinder, various hammers and dollies. I have a mig welder and an acetylene torch.

    Question #1: How much more effort will be required to wheel the 16 gauge over the 20 gauge?

    Question #2: Is 20 gauge too thin? It will pick up strength with the shaping.

    Question #3: Should I go all wheel or rough out the shape with the hammers?

    Thanks

    Neil
     
  2. Joe King
    Joined: Oct 8, 2004
    Posts: 993

    Joe King
    Member

  3. Randy Ferguson
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 60

    Randy Ferguson
    Member

    Neil,

    Q1- No more effort required to wheel 16ga as opposed to 20, but it will take a bit more effort to get the panel into the correct arrangement once you have achieved the shape you desire.

    Q2- In my opinion, 20ga is too thin. The originals were probably either 18ga or 19ga. however some of the early trucks were pretty good stuff, so they may have been heavier. 16ga. will work great, just harder to work with than thinner gauge material. An added bonus is that they will hold up longer.

    Q3- Either way will work, just depends on how you wish to do it. Only you know your skill level. If I were doing it, I'd rough it out with a mallet on high crown areas and use only the wheel on low crown areas.

    What do you have for a pattern?
     
  4. SpookyDad
    Joined: Jul 11, 2008
    Posts: 137

    SpookyDad
    Member
    from Cypress TX

    I was leaning towards the 16 gauge anyway as recruits will probably ignore instructions not to climb on them.

    I have a fair bit of experience with the hammer method as I used to build medieval armor. This will be my first wheel project.

    I don't have any pattern at all. I have watched a few videos on making bucks and paper patterns. The picture is an original drawing superimposed over my truck so I have a line to follow.

    [​IMG]

    Neil
     

  5. Randy Ferguson
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 60

    Randy Ferguson
    Member

    Neil,

    A simple wireform will give you a good 3D visual to prove the shape you want. I use 1/4" hot rolled rod to do this.

    Not my work, but an informative site for what you're wanting to do http://www.femauto.it/pages/ENG/progetto.asp

    This thread also contains very valuable information on making patterns, etc.
    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=294590
    Johnny Arial (jhnarial) has written a very good tutorial within that thread. The fender he built for his Pontiac was one of his first sheet metal shaping projects. By following the simple rules of sheet metal shaping, he made it look easy.

    I think you will also find that Johnny built a simple wireform buck for the inner fender panel for his Pontiac as well in that same thread. Lots of info to sift through in that one!!
     
  6. SpookyDad
    Joined: Jul 11, 2008
    Posts: 137

    SpookyDad
    Member
    from Cypress TX

    Very interesting thread and a good long read.

    I will be getting some 1/4" rod on my next steel run and I am going to see if I can find some 18 or 19 gauge cold rolled. I also need some thick wall tubing to make some hinges.

    Neil
     
  7. 33mopower
    Joined: May 18, 2008
    Posts: 243

    33mopower
    Member

    19 gauge is hard to find but 18 is fairly easy. I would search out 16 gauge low alloy if I was you. The low alloy means its softer and easier to form.

    Cheers.
     
  8. BlackMagicKustoms
    Joined: Jul 5, 2006
    Posts: 322

    BlackMagicKustoms
    Member
    from Denton,TX

  9. pimpin paint
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 4,937

    pimpin paint
    Member
    from so cal

    Hey,

    I'm thinkin' the 16 gage would be a bit much for the "chi-com" E wheel's frame, even "beefed up"!

    John Glover did a video some years back on "Building A Model A Fender". It was a four part tape, but covered all aspects of construction. I beleve Covell and Cal Davis use to sell copies.

    Are the "AA" type fenders any different than the standard Model A /Gaz truck fenders? The rear fenders in the drawing don't look too have much shape, and shouldn't be to tough to build.

    Looks like a fun project!

    Swankey Devils C.C.
    "Meanwhile, back aboard The Tainted Pork''
     
  10. John_Kelly
    Joined: Feb 19, 2003
    Posts: 535

    John_Kelly
    Member

    Neither hot rolled nor galvanized are the best choices for shaping and welding regardless of the thickness. I would use cold rolled 18, 19 or 20 gage. Whether you use just the wheel to get your shape or start with a mallet and shotbag is a matter of choice dictated by different shaping styles. I'm with Randy on this one; rough out the high crown parts before wheeling. It's faster.

    The video by John Glover that pimpin paint mentioned is a good one. I think that there are excerpts on youtube. If I remember right, he did mostly wheeling to get his shape. A fantastic metal shaper who has been at it for many decades. Randy has not been working metal nearly as long, but is already a master metal shaper. The HAMB is fortunate to have him posting here!

    John www.ghiaspecialties.com
     
  11. SpookyDad
    Joined: Jul 11, 2008
    Posts: 137

    SpookyDad
    Member
    from Cypress TX

    I am going to tackle the formwork this weekend and work on the hood. I am going to take a trip down to Curtis Steel or SSS on Monday and see what I can pick up. Cold rolled 19 gauge will be my first choice but I guess I will have to see what they have.

    Thanks for the help.

    Neil
     
  12. Rods & Relics
    Joined: Oct 7, 2007
    Posts: 280

    Rods & Relics
    Member

    Only a couple of days have passed ..................... but how have you gone Neil ??
    Some of us are very passionate for metal shaping & love nothing more than to involve new people into this most rewarding craft.

    (hello John & Randy :))

    CHEERS,
    Rod.
     
  13. SpookyDad
    Joined: Jul 11, 2008
    Posts: 137

    SpookyDad
    Member
    from Cypress TX

    I haven't had a chance to work on that section. I have been working on the hood. I am going to call a couple of steel places tomorrow and locate some better material.

    I did post a couple of new pics last night to my website: http://716heer.org/html/build_pictures.html

    Neil
     
  14. SpookyDad
    Joined: Jul 11, 2008
    Posts: 137

    SpookyDad
    Member
    from Cypress TX

    I have made up a cardboard profile of the new fender. Ignore the black lines and just go by the outside top edge. What do people think?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  15. John_Kelly
    Joined: Feb 19, 2003
    Posts: 535

    John_Kelly
    Member

    That would look nice. Have you done any of this type of metal shaping before? If not, I would recommend practicing on making a small version of the fender to get a feel for what's required.

    Also, I notice that the hood side panels look completely flat. You may have trouble with them making noise and flopping around if you do not put a little bit of 3-D shape in them. most vehicle panels that look flat are not. They have some shape.

    John www.ghiaspecialties.com
     
  16. SpookyDad
    Joined: Jul 11, 2008
    Posts: 137

    SpookyDad
    Member
    from Cypress TX

    I have done handmade medieval armor and I made the fenders on the rear. Nothing quite this large though.

    Oh they have 60 louvers to go in them yet. That and 2 reinforcing bars in the back. Plus the vehicle has a top speed of 45 miles an hours so there isn't too much of a speed wobble problem.

    Neil
     
  17. oilslinger53
    Joined: Apr 17, 2007
    Posts: 2,500

    oilslinger53
    Member
    from covina CA

    Don't know much about english wheels, but galvanized is coated with zinc, isn't it? could pose a problem when you got to weld it. Makes this nasty, fuzzy, smokey shit that gets all over everything.
     

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