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235 running problem

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by gonzo2424, Nov 18, 2008.

  1. gonzo2424
    Joined: Sep 30, 2008
    Posts: 124

    gonzo2424
    Member

    The only wire in the distributor is the wire to the condenser. What wire are you talking about? The one from the coil?
     
  2. It only does it when she gets warm? Could have a coil going south. You should check to see it it's hot to the touch. When the coil gets hot it quits sending spark, then, when it cools (few minutes) the car will start up again. Give that a check.

    El Guapo
     
  3. That's the question I keep forgetting to ask you, was there any other work done on the car prior to this problem cropping up? What trans does it have, a cast iron Powerglide or has it had something newer installed? The trans wouldn't usually be the first place you'd look, but stranger things have happened. Does the trans use a vacuum modulator? If so, is the vacuum line for it in good condition and hooked up properly?

    During the trans rebuild, was a ground strap left off, damaged, or maybe only put on finger tight? It wasn't uncommon for ground straps to be installed under a bellhousing bolt, so it could have been left off during the trans R&R. If you don't see a ground strap on it, build yourself one and bolt one end somewhere on the frame and the other end some place on the engine or under a bellhousing bolt. Make sure you have a good, clean connection on both ends.

    If I remember correctly, the vacuum advance on a 235 didn't just move the breaker plate inside the distributor, but rather the whole distributor housing. I don't know if this generally caused any problems but you might also check the continuity of any wiring routed into the distributor. Look where the wiring passes into the distributor and make sure the insulation hasn't worn away. Connect an ohmeter or powered test light to both ends of the wire and rotate the distributor housing back and forth by hand, simulating the operation of the vacuum advance. If the test light flickers or the ohmeter jumps around you may have a hit-or-miss connection which wouldn't be a big surprise on a car this old.
     
  4. gonzo2424
    Joined: Sep 30, 2008
    Posts: 124

    gonzo2424
    Member

    The coil is less than a month old. Is it possible that it went bad allready? What are the chances of that happening?
     
  5. Dueceburnout
    Joined: Mar 17, 2005
    Posts: 198

    Dueceburnout
    Member

    i dono if this will help. but your starting problem might not be part of the runing or dieing problem. you went 12v and are runing a balist resistor. are you runing a the R post of the starter to the coil for full 12v while cranking. that might have been the starting problem. runing problem may be a vac leak check the intake at the block might be missing the alinment rings. had one do this. got ir running for a guy. then it sat waiting to get picked up for a few months. when he got it it ran like crap. intake started sucking air.
     
  6. el lunchetto
    Joined: Feb 14, 2007
    Posts: 29

    el lunchetto
    Member
    from Austin,Tx.

    Check to see if you are getting spark. Pull a plug wire and hold it a 1/4 of an inch from the plug and get someone to crank it for you. If no spark then its not a carb issue . Also if you bought the coil from autozone there is a real good chance that it went bad already. Is it a 12v system ? If so did you put a ballast resistor in. Any case its all speculation , you need to know when the car wont start is there spark or fuel ,then you just narrowed the search in half keep it simple.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2008
  7. I would get another carb on it. Even if you have to rebuild it or get a new one, always good to have a spare around. As for coil, I always like to get them off the engine and up on the firewall to keep them cooler and subject to less vibration.

    Bob
     
  8. gonzo2424
    Joined: Sep 30, 2008
    Posts: 124

    gonzo2424
    Member

    Yes, I switched to 12 volt as soon as I got it. It ran fine after that for a month. This problem has just jumped up on me, there is a balist resister on the firewall i hooked up. The coil is what came with the kit from NCA.
     
  9. gonzo2424
    Joined: Sep 30, 2008
    Posts: 124

    gonzo2424
    Member

    Anyone have an extra rochester bc idle screw laying around?
     
  10. Road Runner
    Joined: Feb 7, 2007
    Posts: 1,256

    Road Runner
    Member

    A new idle screw and spring are usually part of a good repair kit.
    The cheaper kits from parts stores are not always complete.
    Better kits are available online.
     
  11. Give me a call. I might have an extra idle screw laying around.
     
  12. 1959cac
    Joined: Nov 22, 2008
    Posts: 287

    1959cac
    Member

    How's Spark? Is the coil hot when it shuts off? 6 or 12 volt?
     
  13. gonzo2424
    Joined: Sep 30, 2008
    Posts: 124

    gonzo2424
    Member

    12 volt, doesnt seem too hot, sparks are new and im getting the right volt readings at all spots; from ignition, to balist, to coil to dist
     
  14. attastude
    Joined: Nov 30, 2008
    Posts: 235

    attastude
    Member

    could be the ign. coil, or even a bad wire to the ignition. some old cars have a circuit breaker on the ignotion circuit. pull a plug wire off and crank the engine and check spark. or you can remove the distibutor cap with key on and pry the points apart with screwdriver and should see spark. some tune up kits have poor condensers also.I you recently tuned it , that could be a possibility
     
  15. attastude
    Joined: Nov 30, 2008
    Posts: 235

    attastude
    Member

    did you check if the coil is still six volt or was it also changed to 12 volts. also, condenser needs to be 12 volt condenser.
     
  16. attastude
    Joined: Nov 30, 2008
    Posts: 235

    attastude
    Member

    that's my guess also. can have 12 volts but not enought amperage..
     
  17. gonzo2424
    Joined: Sep 30, 2008
    Posts: 124

    gonzo2424
    Member

    The coil is 12 volts, but the condenser on the last 6volt coil is the same, I wouldnt think that it would make a difference.
     
  18. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,290

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    Anything rated below the 12 volts in the system will be suspect. I would change condenser and if you have any ignition/charging system radio noise supression capacitors then either disconnect them or replace with 12V units.
     
  19. gonzo2424
    Joined: Sep 30, 2008
    Posts: 124

    gonzo2424
    Member

    Went through wires, everything else. Although its been cold around here lately, im starting to notice carb ice, but did not before. Ways to fix?
     
  20. OldBuzzard
    Joined: Mar 8, 2008
    Posts: 878

    OldBuzzard

    Intake manifold heat
     
  21. blackblu54
    Joined: Aug 10, 2007
    Posts: 17

    blackblu54
    Member
    from Norwalk,ca

    dude i had the same prob with my 54 chevy. I was getting off the freeway and the shit turned off by itself, no sign of wht could be the problem. My conclusion was that , somehow i flooded the carb. cuz i let it chill for a while,and i went to crank it and it fired up like nothin.... so the prob might be ur carb!
     
  22. If you do in fact have a carb icing condition it might not be something that can really be cured with a carburetor adjustment. It's got more to do with the temperature and speed of the air passing thru the carb and the humidity of the air. I suspect that modern gasoline formulations might have some impact here as well. Under given driving conditions you can't do much about the air speed or the humidity but you can possibly increase the air temperature somewhat.

    Cars this age probably had noticeably lower underhood air temps compared to newer cars and as a result, cooler air passing into the carb. At cruising speeds, a large amount of air has to pass thru a small throttle bore at the carb creating a cooling effect on the air. This speed increase and temp decrease is further amplified by the even smaller venturi area of the carburetor.

    Then on top of that you're adding vaporized fuel into the airstream which also absorbs heat from the air it's mixing with, kind of the way an air conditioner or a "swamp cooler" works. If the temp drops low enough and there's enough humidity in the air it will attempt to condense and freeze the moisture in the air as it passes thru. Ice will start building up in the throttle bore and venturi and can eventually restrict air flow to the extent that the engine stalls. As you're sitting by the side of the road wondering what happened, the engine heat will usually thaw things out in a matter of minutes. It restarts, runs fine and you head back down the highway to start the whole cycle again.

    You might only be able to see the ice buildup by removing the air cleaner and looking down into the carb, but under the right weather and driving conditions and on certain engine designs you might even see frost forming on the outside of the throttle body and even the runners of the intake manifold. Worse case scenario is the throttle blades being frozen in the open position.

    Many inline engines combat this problem by intertwining the intake and exhaust manifold runners to provide some additional heat to the intake manifold. Some intakes had engine coolant plumbed into them near the carb mounting flange to fight icing. I'm not sure if the old Chevy 6's did this but you might check to see that this feature hasn't been bypassed on your engine.

    Icing might not have been much of an issue with normal 50's and 60's driving conditions and fuel formulations, but more sustained high speed driving and newer "funny" gas blends might cause you to see the problem more frequently. I don't know of a specific cure for this car but you might consider trying a couple things to provide a bit more heat to the intake manifold near the carburetor base. You might be able to clamp a length of copper or aluminum tubing along the outside of an exhaust manifold runner and direct it to the base of the carb, being sure that it won't interfere with the operation of the throttle, choke or other linkages. Position the ends of the tubing so that air passing thru the radiator and fan enters the tube and picks up some heat from the exhaust manifold and exits the other end of the tube near the carb base. You might also do the same thing by wrapping a few coils of tubing around the exhaust head pipe and directing it to the bottom of the intake manifold.

    There might also be room under the intake to clamp a length of 5/8" or 3/4" steel or copper tubing. Then re-route and split one of the heater hoses to connect to each end of this tubing, again making sure that none of this additional plumbing gets in the way of the operation of the throttle, transmission or other linkages.
     
  23. roddinron
    Joined: May 24, 2006
    Posts: 2,676

    roddinron
    Member

    I ask you in post 21 if your heat riser was working? I assume you have the stock manifolds? Some guys get away without manifold heat, and some people even argue that cold is better, but that heat is really necessary on these engines. V8's will always have some heat to the manifold because of their placement over the center of the motor, but these sixes hang the carb off the side, and really need the heat riser to function or icing can occur, even on warm days.
     
  24. DRUGASM
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 2,817

    DRUGASM
    Member

    I am glad I caught this post. I am having the same problem in my 49 coupe with a 216/3 on tree. If I take it on freeway it will hum right along. As soon as I hit the off ramp and put the clutch in the engine just dies. No sputter, no cough nothing. If I let the clutch out while its rolling it fires right back up. When I let it sit for a few minutes fires up but acts like its running way too rich. Checked float and needle and seat with no bad signs. Mine is 6v with a pertronix.

    Around town I never have a problem.

    We pulled the inline filter and checked the pump output. Its the old glass bowl style. It puts out plenty of fuel. Replaced the filter with just straight fuel line and it ran the same.

    Mine also has new tank. The previous owner said (never saw any proof) the engine and trans were rebuilt less than 6k ago. It seems accurate through, no leaks and no issues there.

    I will keep reading this thread. It sounds like you are doing all the dirty work for me.

    Good luck.
     
  25. d2_willys
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,290

    d2_willys
    Member
    from Kansas

    I have read through all the posts, including mine and forgot to mention if the gas tank is venting properly? I had a 235 in an old GMC truck and had inadvertently put a non vent cap on it and it did similar things. I would be driving on the freeway and it would start to sputter and quit. Tryed dropping the clutch to start and no go. Pulled over and removed and reinstalled the cap and it started right up and would run for awhile after that. I would certainly make sure that isn't your problem. You say the tank is new, well is it properly vented? Just trying to help!
     
  26. CE2013
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 5

    CE2013
    Member
    from Cincinnati

    check your coil, plugs, and wires. you said that the starter fluid didn't help, so it's probably electrical. if it's a stick you could always try rolling it the popping the lutch, if it catches then i think it has to be electrical
     
  27. DRUGASM
    Joined: Dec 16, 2008
    Posts: 2,817

    DRUGASM
    Member

    did you ever figure out what it was? how was that road trip you were gonna head out on? is it still doing it?
     

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