Art & Inspiration HELP: VON DUTCH Experts????? REAL or FAKE???

He didn't do it.
Trust me.

 

How often did he actually sign anything "Ken Howard" ?

I know it was very unusual for him to date his work.

 

Looks like most signs point to "fake". That's what I expected. I just didn't want to sell it to anyone as a "real" piece if it wasn't.

 

just because it's shit work doesn't mean it wasn't Dutch or any other "Legendary" artist for that matter.

I've seen dutch work, looks almost just like that, almost same color scheme as well, and it was one of the last "paint boxes" he did.

see the last few DeNiro movies?

 

I'll throw another thought out there.......it's shit work, and it if it IS real, albeit rare, but why should it be priced any higher than if any one of us here on the hamb had done it. Great art and artists are usually priced high because it's hard to find the talent and skill to pull off said art, which, makes it rare and high priced correct? I'm speaking art wise not celebrity wise.


I just never got why a shitty piece by a famous artist should be worth any more than a equivalent. If you're buying art, for arts sake.

 

Cool point of view...

I agree with that one.

 

Me too. Well said.

 

What was the plot ??

 

A bit off topic here, but are his guns as nice as I've heard they were?

 

Love the pic Kirk... LOL
Who gives a rats ass? It's cool. Hang it back up on the wall and just enjoy it!

 

Exactly. I have always just got a kick out of it because it's so fucked up looking. A real Dutch piece would be cool, but I love oddball stuff. It seems like such a poor attempt at a fake that I'm entertained by it more than anything. But it's so bad that it could almost be real. (does that make sense?)

 

i remember reading somewhere that von dutch never left an unfinished line

 

It is hard to imagine that Von Dutch could do anything that bad. I have never seen a piece of Von Dutch work in person. Photos have shown some really poor stuff, such as the Barris stuff and some totally fantastic stuff like envelopes send out to friends.
I have seen many examples of Roth's work and it was far from great. Anyone who saw the panel truck at the last Autorama knows that was really some poor striping.
The Beatnic Bandit in it's original form was pretty poor striping.
Fame doesn't have much to do with quality. Some of the contemporary stripers here on the HAMB are far superior stripers in my opinion.
One armed striper is a good example.
I can't imagine Von Dutch giving that example to a friend.

 

no way...............its a fake

 

...

 

Kirk,
I knew a little kid that called him Mr. Howard but I doubt that he ever signed his stuff that way.

 

I own a giant painting from Dutch, all kinds of different styles going on... but not with any style like on that piece. It is a fake for sure. He never would have signed all that in my opinion.

 

Sure, but if you had a really crappy piece that is proven to be done by Leonardo DaVinchi...I'd still like to own it, & I'm sure I couldn't afford it.

My thoughts are, if someone did that crappy of work because that was as good as they were capable of, would they really then think "hey, I could pass this off as an original Von Dutch!"?
I've seen (photos of) other items he did that are... less than perfect.
What artist out there has ONLY done super nice work and NEVER done anything less than perfect? I think it is entirely possible that he could have done it while just fucking around during a heavy binge.

What's the story Kirk - where did you pick it up from?

 

Me too.

I also like the "Fame doesn't have much to do with quality" line in another post here. Sums it up pretty good, in the eyes of a guy who has been quietly trying to always do the best job he can, in all of his creations, just for the sake of doing the best job he can. Nicely put.

 

I fixed the photo.

 

Another thing...has anyone ever seen any of his work that was signed "Ken Howard"? Maybe he did and I just haven't seen any like that...

 

none, which was my post before I posted about it being shitty and referenced DeNiro. haha.

at some point, you buy art for art, and at another you buy "something" to be collectable, an antique, but "art" value wise, a shitty davinci piece has no artistic value to me.

Same with those shitty John Lennon doodles. haha. Never got that. I'll buy Music all day...but an Abby Road CD is more valuable to me than a doodle.

There is also a point where, even though now, there are great pinstripers, something has artistic value if its an example of being innovative.....first of it's kind....ya know? and I can appreciate that, and that has value to me.

I had a guy at a car show pretty much say fuck you to me when I said that most stripers I know do better work than Von Dutch. Let's face it...look at the friday art shows, lots of great artists. Dutch was "first" (arguably), and THAT has artistic value, as shitty as some of his lines were, but damned if Charlie The Bandit doesn't pull better lines than the "legend"

Historic value? sure, if it was done by dutch it's a fine example of the person he was, if thats valuable to you. Art wise? If i was running the Louvre and picking Dutch Pieces, I certainly wouldn't bid a dollar on it. It's crappy, not innovative, doesn't show any examples of anything other than poopy.

 

On eBay like 10-12 years ago. I was looking for heater parts and came across it. It wasn't listed as a Dutch piece in the title, but was talked about a little in the description. I think it was only $30 or so.

 

im thinking why would he sign it with a sharpie...he knew how to stripe..he would have signed it with a brush..

if he did infact do that work...he must have had one hell of a buzz on

 

for 30$ i would have bought it.

As for the signature, it looks like it was "revalidated" later on.....someone brought it to Dutch and said "hey here is a piece you did? can you sign it again" or something...IF it's real. haha

 

I've seen crappy Dutch work and fantastic Dutch work, even got to meet him at a place out in Santa Paula (was this the cars of the stars place?) But both of those signatures look wrong. My first thought was that the signature came first and then someone did the "artwork?" to go along with the signature but the more I looked at it...

BR

 

Shut up!

 

I guess my point was - just because it is shitty work, does not mean it was not done by Dutch.
The fact that it is shitty almost makes it more believable - not because I think his work was mostly shit, no - but because who in their right mind would set out to make a forgery if that was the best they could do?
Whereas we've all heard about Dutch's affinity towards getting looped, and I know for sure that I've produced some real crap when I bombed out of my gourd.
'course I also produce crap when I am straight.
Obviously, it has little value as pure art, but that does not rule it out as authentic.
Moot point I guess, because there is little possibility of it being proven.

 

I'm sure that was on eBay a few years ago. If I remember it was a singled off item out of a large lot of Von Dutch items. The guy was selling 5-10 different Von Dutch items. The ad stated it was the real deal. Who knows?

 

The added inscription is the interesting bit, since it is obviously not part of the original scheme...odd that it is there, odd that it contains a quirky German phrase, odd that it contains both names... a stupid thought, but if I wanted to fake that bit, I would be MUCH more conventional.
The striping itself looks kid with crayon...but the added signature is so far from jibing with anything it becomes interesting.
Picasso was famous for acknowledging known fakes of his fork and disavowing things people had seen him paint, just to jerk the chains of the camp followers and museum geeks. Von Dutch was MUCH crazier and more screwed up than Picasso.
I'd hang the thing WAY up in a dark corner of the garage and watch people's eyes bug out as they tried to focus on it...