Anyone out there bending with a hossfeld. I need to purchase dies for roll cage material. 1-3/4" & 1-5/8", but am not sure what bending radius' to shoot for. Any of you guys, who's actually bending with a hossfeld; got any recommendations of what dies / bend radius' / Tubing sizes OD that you've consistantly used to build a quality cage? Possibly bought a certain size radius to find it wouldn't work for the application? Carl Hagan
Mine were 6" centerline radius in both tube diameters. Worked excellent....no distortion at all in .095" wall 4130 or DOM.
I always buy the smallest radius they have to start. That way you can fit tubes where areas are tight. I dont have a hoss though. I have the jd
We use a hossfeld. Go to their web page and you can match the the OD you want to use with the gauge. Dies are expensive so you want to get it 100% right. And no, .95 is right for most tracks.
I agree with grunion get the tight radius for the hard to fit spots. But you better hope you have the hydralic attatchment for the bender or you better have some cat hangin at your shop that eats his MEAT RAW and visits his KIN FOLK at the ZOO cause a chunk of 1-3/4 .095 with the tight radius will bend hard as hell !!! >>>>.
Anyone else have any recommendation. I've been all over the Hoss site and it's very UnReadable. No prices, not alot of usuable info if you ask me. Price is exactly the issue, I need to get the right tool for the right job and can't afford to be shelling out dough if I don't need too. I need to choose the right die set the 1st time around (at least for cage stuff). I got the hossfeld, pedestal, entire die package for Pipe, but only have 1 die for OD tube and it's like 3/4". Come on guys....share the love and help a brother out. Carl Hagan
If your buying hoss stuff you better have a big pile of dough. I paid more for the dies from hoss than I did for the entire bender at auction !! >>>>.
This is kind of a general statement, but I think roll cages are 1 5/8 X .118 minimum (mild steel) and roll bars are 1 3/4 X .118 minimum. Chrome moly can be .083 and some of the support tubes don't have to be as big as the main cage or bar tubing. The only way you're gonna know what's what is to get a rule book and look at regularly while you're putting the cage (or any other part of the car) together. Larry T
Yes....I understand the need for the NHRA rule book, every year, ....but .....anyone have any personal experience using certain radius that just really are not needed for Cage Fab. Anything that's just gonna waste my dough, like said above.....I have the bender and a complete Pipe die setup consisting of 9 or so dies.....but now I need to get Tubing Dies....and don't want to waste money. Alot of good replies here and I thank you all for them. So it looks like the 6" CLR will be the best bet?? I figured much smaller radius would be harder to do, but what do you guys think...... Is the 6" CLR going to pretty much handle Main Loop, Halo, drive shaft loops etc.....?? Carl Hagan
Hossfeld recommends a minimum wall thickness of 11 ga. (.120") for ASTM Grade 1020 mild steel (DOM) tubing with 6" radii (either tube diameter). I did .095" wall 4130 on both diameters and 6" radius on mine with good results. Of course, with smaller radii you need to use tubing with a thicker wall (10 ga. = .135").
How fast is this thing going to run? Just want to make sure you aren't building a bar when you need a cage. Don't quote me on this, but general roll bar IHRA specs are 1 3/4od .118 for mild. .083 for cm. The cross brace (horizontal behind seats) can be 1 1/4 .118 mild or .065 cm.
We have the dies You speak of- the 3 inch radius is nearly unusable by hand. (and it doesn't really fit the tubing por kaka.) the 5 incher is usable, but it takes a pair of Large sized humans to operate ( or 3 midsize humans) and by the time You get a cage bent up...Well, let's say that A rowing machine ain't got nothin on a hossfeld in the summertime. as far as accquiring dies, You're gonna have to call hossfeld direct. Thier site reads like stereo instructions, and thier catalog is slightly worse. But, before You go that route, call Your local chassis shops. see what they have, and tell them You are trying to "fill in the blanks" with dies. You will find that the barter system works out okay. (there are precious few of these things floating around Austin, and I know one of my sets of dies is pretty well impossible to find. I am currently borrowing a set myself.)
No idea on a speed estimation. I'm just setting the hossfeld bender up now to be able to offer roll cage / bar bends. Hate to have this bender all set up and not be prepared with the dies needed to pull off a roll cage. Or at the very least, being able to offer 'bending services' for the common 1-3/4 & 1-5/8 tube. Got to have the tool set up 1st. The jobs / cars will very. 1st cage job will be my 78 prostreet malibu. 2nd one will be in my Model A. The friend who helped me unload the bender out of the truck asked about a cage in his 68 Elcamino. So....had the bender all of 24hrs and already sorted all the dies I got with it, and know what direction I need to go in, but am asking for a little 1st hand advice to try to avoid any HeadAches in advance for say. Cool.......Carl Hagan
Thank you for the reply LuxBlue. That's exactly what I'm getting at. I can always borrow a friend for some brut force, but in all actuallity.....it's just me & I'm another one of those tall, lanky...all of 185lb guy. I'll stay away from the 3" CLR die. I just really thought, someone out there already doing this with this bender, would be able to say....."This is what you need and it will pretty much cover the ball park for ya". That's what I'm looking for. Thank you, Carl Hagan
Just to add....I do have some experience with a hossfeld already, but it was all only Flat bar & round bar & 90 to 180 bends. But the steel weld shop I do subcontracting out of....let that bender go without offering it to me first. At least the bolts are already sunk in the concrete & I can just bolt this thing up to the floor tonight when I'm out there. Thank you again for any input on this, guys. Very helpful. Carl Hagan
I think 6" centerline radius is what most shops use. For fitting things up, it helps to cut a piece of cardboard or sheet metal in a half circle shape with a 6.8125" radius (6" + 1/2 of a 1-5/8" tube). Then you can just hold the piece of cardboard up in the corners of the roof to figure out where you want to put the bends.
ok.......all replies have been great. Looks like I'll go with the 6" clr. Anyone else anything to offer, like..."But you really really need this part too" Anyone...anyone....thanks Carl Hagan
Good luck man! New tools are always fun. Get yourself an IHRA and NHRA rulebook, or find a local chassis inspector to give you some basic guidelines. Would hate to have it happen to you: build the cage the way the customer wants and find out the car can't go 135 with what you built.
Started using a Hossfeld in the late 80's. Built many an off road chassis with it, cars that won the Baja 500 and 1000. Also did many other cages, Drag cars to Rally cars. Almost always Chromoly. For 1 3/4" mainly used 6" radius. 1 1/2" we mainly used 5". 1 5/8" made a sleeve to fit inside the 1 3/4" dies. Used it for many years without the hydraulic ram and it wasn't that big a deal with a 5' cheater bar. Sure got easier with the ram though. For small diameter like 1/2" to 1" for driveshaft loops etc used 3" radius. Great bender and really liked it. Had a Greenlee before the Hoss and hated it.
oh Yeah- Chromoly has alot of spring back, so precise bends are a BITCH, but 095 is a pretty easy bend. .120 wall...find some buddies. .180 wall....it will break your dies before it bends- even cherry red. The "reccomended limits" on the hossfeld instructions should say "this is about the only stuff You can hope to bend without kinking, of slingshotting Yourself into the next room. 3/, 1 inch and 1.5 inch dies-reguardless of diameter are indespensible-You will find Yourself thinking in terms of tubing instead of other forms of structure from this point on- and inside of a week, You will be proficient. a month in, and You can bend like a pro. as far as the prive of dies go, Your average job usually will pay for the dies the first time used- and they're invincible.
Just about every pro drag race chassis builder bends all of the major tubing on a 6" radius. If you do any mild steel cages that need to be certified use .130 wall tubing. The so called .120 mild varies greatly in actual thickness and will usually sonic below the .118 minimum. If you check the rule books ( I presume that we are talking drag racing here) you will find that roll bars are spec'ed at 1 3/4" and cages are 1 5/8" for door cars and the like. Altereds and funny cars are 1 5/8" and dragsters are 1 1/2" (provided that they are less than 18" above the shoulder hoop). If you do any chromoly be careful where you source it from as there is a lot of crap out there now and even some of the stuff from the reputable manufacturers is marginal at times. In mild, ERW or the equivalent is OK in most cases. Currently the cost of good DOM is such that you might as well use moly. Roo
I know in the SCCA rulebook, there is a specification of bend radius. 3x the diameter of the tubing, 6inch should cover you for that as well.
I use a 6.5" radius on 1 3/4" tubing. I have seen 7.5" radius dies, and it looked too big. 5.5" radius dies look too small.
Mines a little dirtier than that one. Haha.... Thank you all for taking the time to offer up recommendations. If you've priced these dies, just this thread alone has saved me and others alike a ton in time waste and cost. Thank you again. Carl Hagan
Carl, if you think those dies are expensive you should check out the ones for the Transfluid mandrel bender that we have at John Force's shop. The bender itself is in the $100K range pricewise and we have dies ranging from 1" to 1.625". The followblocks alone are probably as expensive as the whole package for the Hossfeld. Roo
Right on, man. "Reputable manufacturers" is right, if 4130 is out of spec it's never going to bend right so be careful who you buy it from. NHRA is .083", SCTA is .095".
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