Hi there, I have been trying to buy a car for export for a while now. I know that most folks on here are probably against this in principle. Keeping your rides in the states as opposed to letting them go OS is important to many rodders. If you feel strongly about this, it may be best not to read on. I was wondering if i could call on the HAMB members for some advice? here is the skinny. I am using an agent as a middle man to try and do an international transaction to try and buy some wheels. I wont name them here but they are a pretty well known service, real friendly and professional , fully legit etc. They would inspect the vehicle and report to me and would do the financials and arrange all the transport, title exchange. Its the first question i ask all sellers, are you going to be cool with this? and describe what they do. The process is not complicated,but more involved than just a money wire. and although it protects me from a lot of risk. It is turning sellers off as it isnt straight forward. its just easier to sell to the guy down the road. which i can fully understand. being overseas seems to instantly put sellers on the back foot, as this is where most scams come from.. and i gotta be clear with sellers from the outset. no cloak and dagger crap. makes things tough when trying to bag a good deal, but this should be expected. Basically, the deal that the agency runs is that... Find car, get inspection, agree sale, sign purchase agreement, The seller recives a bank wire deposit from the agent and copy of a cashiers check for the full amount that they are about to receive to complete the dealio. They can check with their bank that the account, company, exists etc. ( so what, a buyer could remove the funds in the meantime, right? ) so.. The transport guy comes to the seller and hands over the cashiers check for the full amount. If its close to the agents offices the agent can come along.They can even go down to the bank together and withdraw the money in cash in a branch and deposit it, in cash into the sellers account. all satisfied, the seller then hands over the vehicle at that point. The seller hangs onto the vehicle's title in their name until the money clears ( if they dont get to the bank etc.) and forwards it once they have cleared funds in their account. if the check bounces they report the car stolen and refer the police to the agent. cold comfort if you have just effectively given away a beautiful car that you love. conversely, if i just wire someone, they can skip town with a huge chunk of my money and the car ? I assume the cashiers check is what is turning people off, people have been saying "what if the funds dont clear ? " "i have heard of cleared funds being reclaimed from the bank that the cashiers check is made out from weeks later" Its a real fear i guess, every one i speak to stateside to has "heard stories" of rip offs and is most wary. a couple of folks have said " the car doesn't leave my driveway until i have cleared funds.. bottom line " cynically, you could imagine it from a different angle " I dont leave town with the car until i have cleared funds..bottom line " but i generally like to assume most folks are good folks. so..I aint having much luck I already got burned once at the final minute, with the transport at their front door, cashiers check in hand. the sellers backed out even after they signed a purchase agreement and just refused to deal. ( i assume they got a better offer ) anyhow, cancelled transport, cancelled shipping, cancelled storage, more money wires to get my money back.. it burned. Is there a way that i can make an international deal better, safer for the seller , inspire more confidence? has anyone had any experiences that they could suggest work better than this arrangement. Just after some tips, feel free to kick holes in the process that described. anyone been burned bad ? Want to do a good deal that reduces risk for all parties and gets me my dream ride. any advice would be greatly appreciated many thanks thanks for reading this far. JJ
I deal with International Letters of Credit at times. You can list on them terms and exactly what has to take place before the payment is made. The banks hold the paper untill everything stated / required is satisfied. Insure the shipment. Work thru a good Broker they are worth their weight in gold.
thanks Chaos10meter, haven't heard of these before. what conditions are usually to be met before a seller can collect? what documents do they have to produce? clear title? do they hand over the car before they collect? not having the cash before they hand over the car seems to be the fundamental issue to most sellers. any further description would be cool. f you got a minute. or.. could you recommend a broker ? ( perhaps pm me if you dont want to shout it ?) thx heaps for your response JJ
Sold three cars overseas in the last 24 months. There getting more miles on them now than i could have ever put on them & keeping this stuff alive over there. What do you need
I sold one car that went to Sweden. It was a smooth deal that went off without an issue at all... The reason i feel was, the overseas buyer had another party here in the states that actually did the deal. He came to me, looked at the car and conveyed the info to the overseas buyer. Once he was satisfied the money was wired to the fella here in the states, which was then passed to me to in cash to finalize the deal.. Then the car was picked up by the fella here..done deal. I'd do it again that way, but that's the only way i'd do it. But, you would obviously have to have a connection in the states you could trust to do it this way..Unfortunately i don't have any idea who to go to.. Sorry.
Skully, can your 'broker' show up at the seller's site with CASH? That should satisfy anyone. I would think that if he has a good Cashier's check in hand he could get cash at HIS bank and present it to the seller. The broker's only worry would be a ripoff at time of sale. If it was handled at a bank I would think that would prevent any issues. The bank could verify the money as real and also provide security for both parties.
B-Rad, I have always wanted a 50 merc coupe. unchopped, driver with flathead. must be original chassis, no clips, no rust can be mild custom, no prob. frenched, shaved, decked, lowered is all good would consider one with a chevy block, no windsors or caddys. ( no parts in OZ ) any hookups would be aces Cheers JJ
Skully, Where abouts are you looking to purchase? If you are buying a SO Cal car then I would suggest you get yourself onto www.nsra.org.uk as there are a few members that are based in Southern California and have already done inspections for members and in some case even found cars. If it checks out I would then just jump on the plan and do the deal in person, if you are spending reasonable money on a car it seems the only sensible thing to do really. Plus you get to have a holiday and drive the car before shipping it back. You could even get any work done to it whilst you are out there, got to be a lot cheaper than doing it here! Kev Elliot is the techincal editor at R & C and there is Limey Steve plus a few others that would be happy to help out for the price of a dinner. FYI the NSRA site is down for a server upgrade. Drop me a PM if you need any more. P.
Scully, There was a 50 Merc custom for sale in the UK at the moment, black with really nice ghost purple flames. Not sure if it is still up for grabs but could make some enquiries. P.
DBradley, the agent can only really do that with the CEO of the company and take the seller to the bank with him. the car sits in the parking lot with the transport guy until they come out and the seller is happy and hands over the keys and title. the agent wont show up with cash because it breaches their duty of care to me as a customer. its gotta be at the bank. the CEO is in Conetticut. so it limits the area i can buy from. and he cant give a transport company my cash either do do it elsewhere. basically most people wont do it cause it sounds too much like a car-park deal for one of their prized posessions but i can see your point. cash seals it every time. thanks for your response JJ
scully your location says UK yet you mention no caddy parts in OZ? where are you - UK or OZ? as paul says go over to the nsra site there are a couple of people there willing to go look at a car with lots of experience. there are guys there with contacts in So-Cal and the east coast. got to say though because of all the scams which go on I wouldnt accept a cashiers cheque, only cash would do it for me - especially that you mention a middle man and nearly all scams involve a middle man and a cashiers cheque.
Paul-Y any ideas where it came through? website-wise? I trawl most classifieds and havent seen that one ! I know there is a mint one in portugal and one listed on the HAMB in Austria. thanks for the tip JJ
Weemark. I am in the UK. expat Aussie. The car will come back downunder with me one day i guess. means shipping it twice, but hey. wouldnt sell it in a hurry sorry if that sounded confusing. JJ
thats cool, i will check out the NSRA for some contacts. I lost enough money on the couple who chickened out at the last minute that a trip to the USA would have been a cheaper option. all expenses included. I used a legit company as the middle man, and they were all cool, but you are right about the middle main thing and the cashiers check. If i was selling, i would want to get some reassurance too. so , you are right . its easy for a seller to just say no rather than accept any sort of risk Cheers JJ
It's a two way street. This is not entirely relevant to this thread, but as an overseas rodder in a country that is reliant on importing cars from the US, we are at the mercy of US sellers to some extent. I know of two instances where Kiwis purchased cars off Egay, were both sent a gazillion pics of the cars from all aspects, and on getting them here discovered that they had so much rust (painted over) in the floors and sills that the repairs were going to cost more than the purchase price. In one instance, several times the purchase price. In another instance, a car on Egay was found to be represented by pics that were over 10 years old. My point is that trust is a two way thing, and it is easy to get burnt. To be fair, that is three instances against literally hundreds of satisfactory transactions.
its true what you say bro, I would always get the agents inspection team to check out a vehicle stateside before i made a commitment. I usually speak to the seller, get some more photo's. see if they are what they say on the phone, and then get an inspector to go over the vehicle and confirm that it does what it says on the tin. and sellers are always really cool, almost all of them will not even do a sale without you inspecting the vehicle. Its true, its a two way street, i am all for being 100% clear with sellers and treating them as i know i would want to be. thanks for the line JJ
I've sold several cars to overseas buyers. they all had an American contact who paid me in cash and arranged everything. never use the word "agent" when dealing with US buyers. EVERY scamming M.F'er out there has an "agent". fake cashiers checks are the favorite way to steal, with fake western union telegrams about cleared payments coming in a close second. American sellers are not as familiar with wire transfers as overseas buyers. the only way I'd release a car to an "agent" with a wire transfer is if my bank garanteed the payment was good in writing. which is something they most likely would not do. you need to find a company that will buy the car for you with cash. cash is king as far as I'm concerned.
A shipper handing over a cashiers check AT the time of pickup? Unless they are willing to do it at the bank the check is drawn off of so I can walk out with CASH,,,, I would not be interested. WAY too many scams out there.
I agree with Paul Y, do your research, tee up some possibilities then go over and check them out. You can even see the car you choose into the container, then out of it again at the other end. The money you save on the agents fees will offset the cost of the trip. Plus, for no risk satisfaction there's no substitute for doing it your self!
I have sold one overseas. The money transfering was a bit of bitch, both of our first times with such a transaction. It never really bothered me because the car was still in the states and the title was still in my name. Its not like they put it on the boat and it sails away the minute you drop it off. I think mine sat in the shippers warehouse for a month before shipping. If the dude in the UK flaked I just went and picked up my car. I think its probably the guy in the UK that has a better chance of getting screwed. As far as them staying in the states, who ever pays my price will own my car. I think its kinda cool a car I built is in the UK.
There's still a lot of tin to go around for US guys and overseas. There are US cars in Japan, Norway, Sweden, France, Germany, New Zealand, Australia, South America, England etc. and their all mostly very cool car guy's. In the past, I shipped fourteen different cars to Japan. I would find the type of car they wanted inspect it and they would transfer the cash to me and I would take a service fee. If, I were buying a car myself from England, I would fly over and look for myself unless there was someone who's judgement I trusted to inspect the car. Letter of credit sounds interesting may check this out. CRUISER
Tiny, thanks for your response. basically that is the case with the cashiers check. the seller can confirm with his bank the funds are there etc as much as they please. but that aint a guarantee that the buyer does't just withdrawl them and make the check bounce. In my case,the sellers security is the title of the vehicle. the vehicle is essentially still in their name and theirs until they are satisfied and have their money. usually a couple of days. once happy, they forward the title for it to be transferred to my name. If the check doesn't clear the car can be reported stolen and traced. As you say, its going to be in a shipping yard someplace and could certainly never leave the country or be titled in another state by VIN. but its a bitch, and not a haslle anyone would want. as you say, cash is king. most of these agencies will not do cash. its just a liability for them and if anything went wrong would put them in a position where a buyer could royally screw them. JJ
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