I had a similar issue on a rebuilt 390. (FE motor) My oil fowling problem turned out to be a series of issues rather than just a single cause. I had new guides and SS valves and springs installed in the head, but had the wrong valve guide seals. I was thinking "Damn even with the wrong seals how am I fowling these plugs so fast, there can be THAT much oil in up in the head can there?" I had a high volume oil pump/ that really put the pressure to my used stock shaft mounted valve train. I learned just how critical the tolerances between all the corresponding components are. I let the engine warm up then removed the valve covers. Everything looked fine until I revved the motor up to around 2000 rpm the valve train suddenly began hemorrhaging oil everywhere, I swear I pumped about two quarts out in like 20 seconds. I replaced all the rocker shaft pieces and added oil restrictors in the <link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CRHH9%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --></style>head to keep more oil down on the bottom end. No more oil fowling
That's EXACTLY what I would expect from the higher flowing pumps! They're really not a requirement. The stock pumps flow really well and the diversion inserts/valves are a great idea in conjunction with something that flows just fine. Just out of curiosity, any reason you didn't just switch to a stock replacement or a stock type 340 that would have the same amount of flow or do you have something that's a hopped up pretty good that would require you to flow more oil? Sorry... off on a related tangent. I find I do this just in normal conversation as well... ADD maybe??
BTW... on page 41 of Tex Smith's Complete Chrysler Hemi book, there is a blurb by Gary Cross related to the subject. Good read and thought I would mention it since we're on the topic. In that article it is suggested that rocker arm to rocker shaft clearances may lead to too much oil going to the heads.
If you were burning oil, I think you'd see it when you let off the gas and the engine was pulling heavy vacume. Usually when you see oil smoke from this test, it is the intake guides pulling oil into the combustion chamber. I don't see how the heads are causing your oil issues - unless your valve guide clearances are too big. Also, you might check the underside of your valves - usually they will show lots of oil/carbon buildup if the guides are pulling too much oil. From what I can see, it sure looks like you're running way rich - probably toward the rear cylinders. I'd sure have somebody checkout the carbs, jets and overall carb tune . . . this is where I'd spend my time. Do you notice whether or not the front exhaust pipes are getting a lot hotter than the rears? Also, it is possible that you've been washing down the cylinder walls and that the rings are not yet seating. What type of rings are you running? You may need to rering it. Once I put it back together, I'd do a compression check and see what it is looking like. Let us know what you find . . . will be interesting to know what the problem/solution ends up being.
It should be noted that the Hemi doesn't have a huge amount of oil going to the rockers like many other designs do, probably don't want restrictors. The 340 HV pump has 3% greater than OEM flow. The guy who's been entering early Hemis in the Engine building contests is using standard volume 340 pumps & sucsessfully drag racing the engines. Lose the spark plug washers! Round port 51-53 331s use short reach plugs, oval ex port Chr hemis use long reach.
I know it only has 1000 or so miles on it, but the cross hatch on the cylinder walls in the photos looks way too "fresh" for a run-in engine, so I question if the rings ever seated properly? I agree with some of the others, looks like it is running very rich, maybe the walls got washed down early and prevented the rings from wearing in properly. If you drain the oil, does it smell "gassy" and look dark for only having 1000 miles? That would be the first clue that you are too rich, and gas is getting past the rings (and replacing the oil you are burning, keeping the dipstick on full). I would consider throwing it back together with new head gaskets, run it little more, and do a compression check or leak down test. If the rings are not sealing you will be chasing this around forever!!!!! Good luck, you have to be frustrated as hell with this one!
I can't tell from the pictures how you have the crank case vented? It is vented isn't it Did you have any evidence of blow by? High crank case pressure could explain the oil pushing up out of your Mag and again point to poor ring seal. Is that a small breather in the valley cover under the intake? Did you have any oil vapor or residue from or around the breather? Or could you smell oil vapor when getting on it? If there is wet oil around the breather that will be a important indicator, and again point to ring seal issues. One thing I like to do for break-in is to run a stock 2 bbl intake and carb and do my ring break in (very important) and general trouble shooting. Once everything is good, then throw on the exotic intake and tune from there. You can find early Hemi 2bbl intakes and carbs on *bay for almost nothing. Just a thought that it would be a inexpensive way to bolt your 392 back together and eliminate the induction system from the equation. Another question, did you post several months ago that you did not know if your builder replaced or put in the oil restrictor, or was that someone else?
What oil restrictor are you talking about? I'm not aware of one on the stock 392 - but I'm relatively new to these motors. I've not heard of the early Hemi having an issue with too much oil going to the top end (but I've only been into them a couple years). I believe the rocker oil comes from the cam bearing journal and the 'through' holes only align a portion of the time. What can you tell me about this?
Hi Guys 392 update took heads to my head guy very well known San Jose (Bob Gromm) he said the same as most ,looks cool but lot of carbs and Webers are touchy he said valve seals looked ok ,he was going to clean up and freshen also install hot heads seals for spark plugs Took pictures of motor and plugs to engine builder (SS Machine San Leandro) George and Rick Santos ,both said engine needs more heat than the Vertex can put out (with that many carbs ) they felt the bores looked ok for the mileage I know I will take some shit for the attached picture ,but I am tired of playing with the mag .015 gap non resister plugs ,and no Webers would be like having a 350 ,I need to figure out how to make the MSD not be seen ,hate Ricky Racer Shit www.backnblackpromod.com
I know how you feel! I was going to run an early Vertex on my blown 392, but just decided that I wanted a more "tunable" ignition than a 50 year old Vertex style mag. I opted for an offset drive distributor (NRC - to clear the Donovan blower manifold) that is locked down (no advance). I'm going to use a MSD 7535 digital ignition with MAP referenced advance curves. Obviously this has nothing to do with the 60's . . . but it will enable me to pull advance out based on boost and keep the damn thing from detonating with pump gas. Sometimes you have to sacrifice looks for functionality . . . though it pains me to do it. I have a NOS Vertex mag - it just isn't the way to go with what I plan to do with the engine. I'd love to hear how this all turns out! Given your combination, I believe that once you have the carbs sorted out, that the Vertex would be fine for your application. You don't have boost to worry about . . . so it is a bit more simple than my application. There is plenty of ignition power in a Vertex to handle your engine - consider trying it once you have the induction system correctly tuned.
Noticed you were setting up a 7AL MSD box. You might want to talk to MSD about running one of these for extended times on the street. Many of my racer friends say this is a bad idea! If you are going to go the MSD route, you may want to consider a unit that can last on the street and not have issues -- like a digital 7 series.
You can try to measure and diagnose, or you can throw parts at it until its fixed. One method is expensive and time consuming, the other is fast and cheap. Also, could someone explain how high oil pressure causes oil leaks? I'm not understanding this concept.
My Vertex runs fine in my DeSoto... But whatever you want to its your car. I think your major problem is that Weber intake. If ya wanna off that Junk Ass Vertex.. Shoot me a message.
Thanks for the tip I will check on the 7AL ,great thread I am learning alot hope its not hard to set up ( would like any tips) ,not good with electical or motor building but enjoy trying , ask me a CONCRETE QUESTION
If you would still like to keep that old timey look of the mag but you are done with the unique nature of a magneto, then check out this link to Joe Hunt Magnetos. http://www.huntmagnetos.com/distributor.html He manages to install electronic ignition components into a mag body. Still looks cool but no hassles. Just a thought. BTW, I have a hard time thinking that a properly functioning mag cannot light off the mix from those Webers. Look at my avatar, I run a Mallory mag to spark the fuel from Hilborn injectors on the street. My plugs are black as a coal miner's lungs. However, if you aren't willing to deal with all the little details that make mags work then I would support your decision to go electronic. BTW, I'm just up the pennisula from you. If you need anymore help just PM me. Joe
Do you have what for crankcase ventilation ?? Gota have some kind of ventilation ,crankcase that is pressurized will push oil out in strange places.
You are welcome Chris and btw, I like the look of your car. It is amazing how many rods are powered by early hemis now. Seems like there are more early hemis now than Chrysler ever made LOL.
If you have to run your plug gap at .015 your vertex need's its magnets recharged or you have a slow turning starter,yes the magnets do weaken over time.French Grimes, Joe Hunt , Don Zig or Taylor all can do it. My rule of thumb is to keep opening up the gap untill the motor gets hard to start than back off a few thousands. Champion plug #N10Y TO N16Y Smaller # = colder an N13Y would be a good starting point , you want to run the hottest plug that will live in the motor...
I know there everywhere ,getting to be like 350/350 looking for tips on setting up my MSD anyone have ideas
DAMN YOU!!!! DONT EVER....EVER compare a 350 to a HEMI!!!! In ANY way shape or form!!!! Now back to our regularly scheduled program......
I know you don't want to hear this, but I have a Bone Stock '57 DeSoto adventurer engine in my car running a 6 volt positive (+) ground system. I have the stock distributor in it with a Pertronix unit in it, and I can't MAKE it missfire. All the plugs look like new, but with the Stock dual point system they didn't. The oil pump is a rebuilt, Stock DeSoto unit, and it's MORE than up to the task. I went to great pains to put this engine back together as Stock as I could, and it runs like a scalded cat. It has been my learned-the-hard-way experience that if you try to build a Hybrid race/street engine, you will wind up with a lousy racer and a lousy street car...FWIW... BTW, no matter HOW many Hemi's you see in cars, they ALWAYS have a WOW factor that the 350 never had. They still draw lookers like flies to honey...
Wow. Pretty sever change you're making there. I don't think the mag is your issue. That thing should put out plenty of spark. I think you just should have swapped out the intake for a bit until you've got it all set up right. I too am interested in what you find. Only thing is that you're changing so many things you may not ever narrow down what the actual issue is/was. None the less! You should enjoy your that 392 anyway you can. Hemis rule!
I am on board with that I have never done it the easy way ,I enjoy driving the bus not riding on it this is my first Hemi and I love it, and your right it not another 350/350-350/350/350 etc etc
Still wondering... How you are ventilating the motor, PCV? are you pulling thru the carbs or intake? PLease tell.
I only have breathers on the valley pan and 2 small breathers on the valve covers no PCV or nothing hooked up to carbs or intake could this be part of my problem ( love not to run the MSD ) the mag will run .030 gap Thanks
It would be a cheap and easy test!!!!! Go to autozone and get a pcv and replace one of the breathers on the valley pan and run it into the intake!!! Maybe evenblock off the second one in the valley so you will pull thru the breathers on the valve covers.
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