Semi off topic but car related I have a daily driver that is off topic that I wanted to turbo, more so to make the car a little more fun to drive. While doing some research I found that some people got better gas mileage out of their cars turbo'ed then without. I wanted to get some of your guys input. If I could make my car, more fun to drive on the weekends and better on gas during the week it sounds like a win win. The idea with a turbo for increasing mileage is to not use the Boost. At first seemed counter- intuitive as more pressure will result in more fuel = less mileage. If the turbo does nothing but ease the engine breathing by countering the pressure lost through ducting, filter, etc (which by itself should give a small effieincy increase as the engine does not have to use energy to pull the air, but instead recovers some power from the exhaust to do this) and providing an increase in air temp to aid vaporization. <ODoes that seem at all plausible? It kind of makes sense to me but Im sure there is someone who has a ton more experience with turbo's then I. What do you think? Keeping out of boost on the highway, would I gain mpg?<O</O
I agree a turbo can make it better on fuel..You are making it more efficient even out of the boost...
Make sure to add a blow off valve so you get that super cool PPPSSSHHH!! sound that all the ricers are dying for.
go to your local bookstore, amazon.com or wherever and pick up 'Maximum Boost' by Corky Bell if you're considering doing this. One of the main reasons for the mileage increase is that instead of shifting down a gear or two to accelerate. Using completely hypothetical numbers, you'll use less fuel accelerating at 1,500 rpm with a few psi of boost than at zero boost and 3,000 rpm. A turbo still isn't 'free energy' as it takes a lot of HP to drive the compressor wheel; it's just substantially more efficient than a belt driven compressor. And forget about the people that say 'turbos suck because they're too laggy'...there's a difference between turbo lag and boost threshold. That's covered well in Corky's book. properly setup turbos make absolutely wonderful street setups. one company I know of but have no direct experience with is STS Turbo, they build street setups for a lot of vehicles, if they don't have something for your specific vehicle they do a fair amount of 'universal' kits in which they'll work with you on getting the right setup. or they can at least help point you in the right direction to piecing something together yourself. what non-HAMB ride are you considering this for?
a 98 honda civic haha let the flaming begin. it's a nice fun little car, gets about 330 to 340 miles per tank and it's about an 11 gallon tank. i have heard of some guys gettin 500 miles to the tank! gas here in CT is $4.00+ a gallon so i have to drive a ricer. but atleast with the money i'm saving it goes right back in to my 51 ford.
The Corky Bell book is still the bible of turbocharging, GET IT even if you are just contemplating doing this and read it. Also, join this message board: www.theturboforums.com and start reading. Those guys are very Mustang heavy but are far more knowledgeable than the average turbo forum. All that being said, a turbo for economy is kind of an oxymoron. What a turbo can do for you is make a small engine seem much larger as with any power adder. But with a turbo, under the boost threshold the engine will behave as it did without being turbocharged. I have read instances before using remote turbocharging (mounted in the back where the muffler would be) on a E350 10 passenger van with a V-10. The guy did it for more power to move his customers but ended up not working the engine as hard to move the same mass. I believe this to be a rare instance.
eh, there are quite a few guys on here that have a jap car or bike for their reliable commuter, there's a lot to be said for 30+ mpg, simple reliability and something you can afford to drive and throw away at 300k miles... fortunately there should be a lot available for that thing...unfortunately you'll probably have to wade through mountains of ricer b.s. to get to the real tuner info. I have basically zero knowledge of the lil VTECs, other than that they're an awesome engine for a newer 4-banger.
that site has got some really cool stuff on it.... the guy with the 150k+ short block in a firebird with turbos running in the 9's....a lot of info... another site with more info www.yellowbullet.com some buddy's and i have been talking about the turbo thing a lot lately...heck my nephew added a small one to his 98 honda and picked up 2 seconds...and something like 15 or 20 mph...still slow...but we've been talking about doing a small one on his 12.00/11.90 nova.... brandon
Thats why i came here out of the millions of pages of b.s. i found maybe a half a page of real data. i figured the risk was worth the reward posting this here. anyone else with turbo knowledge want to put some ideas out there? any tips for setup? size of the turbo ect? i'm looking for around 200 hp
Since we are on the topic of turbo's I might as well try making this an on topic post. So some more people can chime in. How would a turbo work with a flathead? I know the flow characteristics are not anywhere near a modern fuel injected engine. Would you be able to gain some mpg like with my civic? I know you can run about 5 psi on a stock flathead. Has a stock flathead ever been turboed?
I met this guy at Billetproof a few years ago. He has a Banks setup on his flatty. Very nice older gentleman who says the boost was set around 6psi I believe. Very conservative. I thought it was pretty damn cool. BTW, they were messing with turbos back in the day and there were Gassers with them too. btw someone else took these photos and I stole them off a similar thread.
i'm thinking about a 8N ford with a saab 2.0 turbo(i have one, not the car, just the turbo and intercooler)
I think that there is someone here that has a flathead pickup with a turbo. I saw it last year at the roundup. But will you get better mileage with a turbo?? Not a chance!! LOL! Because you will instantly have a ton more power......which means your foot will be in it more! Plausable, yes, but not really in reality! LOL! Another book is "Turbochargers" by Hugh McCines (SP?) along with Max Boost and theturboforums. There is some "real" knowledge there and not a tenth of the crap you will have to get from the ricer boards. Good luck! They are fun!
It can work on the fuel economy side of things. I knew a guy who had a car with a 5L engine, sold it, and bought another the same with a 3.3L engine. He then turbo'ed the engine and changed the gear ratio from 3.36, to 2.78. The end result was better performance than the 5L, and better economy than the stock 3.3L. The change in final drive ratio helped the MPG heaps, and the torque from the turbo allowed the smaller engine do the work when needed, and the rest of the time, it was just cruising along.
Turbos build big torque, so if you gear the engine right, you can get better fuel milage because of the fact that even with 5psi, you use less fuel at 2000rpm than you do at 3500rpm NA. I have a turbocharged SBC sitting on the stand right now. Its most likely going into my 57' pontiac for a bit while some more issues with the poncho's motor build get taken care of.
I have that book too, Turbochargers by Hugh MacInnes. Good read but not nearly as informative and down to earth as Corky's book for a first time build. I think anyone willing to build a turbo system should have BOTH books and read them fully. I spend days and weeks reading through the turbo forum board before I posted. I read my books and did as much internet surfing looking for turbo information. I have have found it very necessary to understand the terminology and how to properly read a compressor map before making any choices. For a Honda, buy a kit from Ebay. Install it, blow it up and then start over again. It will be a cheap and easy way to get into turbocharging on a budget. The experince you will gain from the failure of the cheap Chinese turbo will propell you to build a real stellar system. Otherwise DIY is the best way. Just asking what sort of turbo you should use is irritating and rude. And the advice you get may not suit your needs or expectations. Knowledge is power!
Seems to me that if you are mostly wanting to increase fuel economy, you would do things like run a CAI, maybe go the tune a bit, and see what else you can do. Maybe some weight reduction too. Our old '95 Civic got at least 30mpg stock maybe like 36? www.theturboforums.com has a lot of good DIY'er tech. I have an 88mm in my OT '98 Formula and just bought a 106mm for it... lol.
heck im buying a Harley to knock around in for some gas mileage. 45 or so mpg and looking good doing it!!
'62-'64 Oldsmobile Jetfire and some '62 Corvairs (Spyders and Corsas) both had factory turbochargers... Not really as O/T as you would think.
For a quick and cheap increase in gas milage, build yourself a grill blocker, and an under engine pan. You can block off the the entire upper grill opening and everything under the bumper but the section directly infront of the radiator. This will pick you up 2 to 3 MPG on the highway and will not have a very large effect on the operating temp. Then take a boot tray or storage bin lid and make a pan to fit under the engine, If you want to get fancy you can hinge it to make oil changes easier. This will be good for another mpg or more. Next thing to do if you have low profile tires and wide rims, go back to stock rims and narrow tall tires inflated at max pessure listed onthe side walls. Way back in the late 70 during the first gas crisis ( ah the good old days) I had 74 Nissan Stanza. I ran these mods, put tall skinny tires and wheels on ( 165 80 15 instead of 175 70 14) milage went from 32 on the highway to 39 at what was then a blistering 69 mph. Remember the 55 natonal speed limit was in at the time. Face it if you put a turbo on it yer gonna want to use it and the more your foot is down the faster thse 11 gallons will go away.
Are you kidding? If a 98 civic isn't getting good enough mileage? Do you have tires on it or just bare rims?
My everyday is a Saab with turbo, and I get 200+ hp with 29-30 mpg calculated. The key is a low pressure turbo, with it mapped to interact with you engines natural power curve.
One thing also to unfortunatly consider on a car that new, is emmisions---will effect you where you live or even on resale? There is a ton of info out there---its just finding what applies to you that will help you out. being its a honda, you might find som good support and used parts from someone upgrading. I only have delt with newer holley carbed turbocharging so i cant offer a ton of help being a fuel injected car, but you should be able to achieve your goals easily. Also i dont recommend dealing with a large turbo company--turbonetics or what not, only because they and others like them are VERY expensive. I hate to say it, but milk places like that for info and buy elsware.
One of the other keys is that a turbo allows you to have a smaller engine putting out the same power. Smaller engine uses less fuel. Simple. Turbo-charging an existing engine, with no other mods, will probably not gain much. Last Harley I owned got 32 mpg. It looked good, but was slow. Now, my new Triumph Tiger 955i (injected) gets 45 mpg and goes like stink. Scary fast, and it's not even supposed to be a fast bike. Cosmo
My commuter car gets 24 mpg average.....it's only 2.0L but has 260 HP. It's a new HHR "SS". I'd like to put this type engine in a roadster.....maybe the best of both worlds?? After I bought it I knew I had to build a bigger engine for my real hot rod since the little commuter will outrun my '35 sedan now. The twin-scroll turbocharger makes boost from very low rpm.
I agree that new turbos are expensive but you get what you pay for sometimes. Limit Engineering, Turbonetics, etc have been around a while and have a good reputation. Shop around, you can often find a good used turbo with low mileage for a couple hundred. Also find a low mileage one from a turbo car someone is upgradng. Stock Grand National turbos in good shape still run only $100-$150 and woud be more than enough for your car. You could always get one of those cheap ebay turbos as mentioned before bt I dont know why anyone would. Doyou knopw what hapens when a turbo goes out? It usually isn't just the turbo. If you get unlucky and the blades go you get little pieces of metal and crap a thorugh your motor either injested directly or through the oil supply.
Good luck improving your mileage! I turboed my little autocross racer and my mileage and tire life both dropped by half! Of course the smiles per gallon are way up. -Ben
I drove Corky's old Miata back from AlbNM, and WOW, awesome car! Made mine feel like a Yugo. If I had the funds for a turbo daily, I would. Every dollar spent on the Miata's, is a dollar taken from one of the Hot Rods. They sure are fun to drive though, even NA.
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