OIL We'll be paying more for oil until we start using less. Even if we could start pumping oil out of a new field (like Alaska) today we can't produce enough to make a big dent in the price. If we'd do something about traffic jams and similar waste we could have a bigger impact than any new field. Steel China and other countries are building things like crazy and are buying our scrap steel, copper, etc and driving the prices up, just like we're driving the prices of oil/gas up. RE "the war" driving metal prices up: We're not loseing Liberty Ships, fighter planes and tanks by the dozens every week. The materiel losses in this war have a minimal impact on steel prices unlike the war's impact on the dollar. Unions/EPA/Politicians What these have in common is that too often we look at a "short term" solution. Look at what's happened to the carmakers when the costs of the contracts from the '50's started to hit. There's no new refineries or nuke power plants supposedly because of regulations designed to prevent problems in earlier plants without compromise. So now what? How many of us can tell what our favorite cadidate's position is on environmental issues? How many of us don't vote, or vote against someone? Are we part of the problem, or part of the solution?
The people on the right always blame the left, and the people on the left always blame the right. I've come to the conclusion that government as a whole, left and right, is in bed w/ special interests and I don't really trust any of them to have my best interests in mind. But I will say it has been the right who has been "in charge" the last 12 years, and this has all happened on their watch. Doesn't prove it is their fault, but it is circumstantial evidence.
No Thats not what i was saying...... I was adressing that ther IS oil off the coast here that will supply MUCHO OIL for a looong time & the main reason its not being tapped is that SANTA BARBARA Big Money dosent want the Oil Derrick on ''THERE BACK YARD'' & that the Envornmentalist help due to the POSSIBILITY of Oil Spills in the Water. I really dont care if Y'All dont believe it or find it on the computer, I work as an OIL PUMPING UNIT MECHANIC in the Ventura county area and the Reserve is there but wont be tapped due to Rich Pollitics & Green Partys alike. Has nothing to do with the WORLD, But it does have to do with Oil in the U.S. Like i said, they are at least a MILE off shore & there are 4~5 already.... So whats the big deal of 1 more if the Oil reserve will do the country good ? Funny how you guys take the ""RICH HUMMER"" part & group it with the ""GREEEN PARTY"" Part so it says "" GREEN PARTY DRIVING HUMMERS"" .......... But then i guess you never been to Santa Barbara, Cus there... IT could be true..... I dont know why i even get into these threads
It's not only the ships, planes, tanks, etc. It's the infrastructure involved. Sure, tons and tons of material does go into making bombs, missiles, and other munitions, but we are also setting up shop there, building bases, bridges, pipelines, communications. Takes tons of steel and countless miles of copper wire. It does add up. The impact on the dollar just multiplies everything.
The problem with the EPA and labor unions is that they don't work unless you stand for the same ethics everywhere. For example: 1) EPA and Unions in U.S. Ethics we try to be proud of. 2) No EPA / Unions in China. Damn, really very little ethics and arguably some slave labor. Because of the double standards, big business selects option #2 as it allows more profit. #1 gets fucked. So-- either get rid of standard #1 or insist the same of standard #2. Otherwise, standard #2 crushes standard #1. You know-- i believe this thread should stay open too. It's an important topic and it does apply to commodities key to hot rods. -scott noteboom
So...what do you want....Scrap to be .01 a pound? Then all that crap will sit there forever rusting away. Why not take advantage of it and get in the game. Scrap is at the highest prices ever and it actually causes a clean up effect here in the US. People are pulling out the eye sores and getting rid of them and making money doing it. Get a trailer and cruise the neighbor picking up refrigerators, stoves, and other appliances along with old lawn mowers and other junk. You might be suprised at how much money you can make in a day doing this. How about $200-$400 a day? I'll bet most people on here don't make that at their day job. I know I don't. Here we get $160 a ton for cars. I have an old 88 Suburban that weights in at 5900 lbs. That's $472.00 for about two hours work. Again...so what do you want?
And yeah, maybe the political threads do deserve to get closed when they veer too far off course. I know we need to talk about certain political, environmental, governmental, and social issues on here as they impact on our hobby, but sometimes it does get a bit old. I know I sincerely doubt I am ever going to change anyone's point of view on here, and I sincerely doubt anyone will change mine. I like the conversation to stop just short of hurting anyone or pissing anyone off, at least here on the HAMB. Frankly, the opinions I have rarely come up when I'm at the drags, at a show, or watching the mud slinging at the Showdown, and I kinda don't mind it staying that way. I look at myself as so radically far left liberal I'm off the chart, but I'm sure there are some left-wing dudes out there who would shit on me for partaking in some of my hobbies. So, fuck it, I'll get back to wrenching, and I'll keep doing what I do, because I know I'll never agree with every person on here, except for the reason we're all here-the cars.
i see your point. that said, i suppose im politically ranting more to vent frustrations than anything. the hamb shouldnt be here for that bullshit. i still think we're in a pretty tough spot though.... -scott noteboom
Agreed, we definitely are in a tough spot. So, like I said, I am adapting, doing what I can do. Driving a more efficient car, driving less than I used to, and cashing in on some of the scrap metal prices. Might as well, nothing else I can do right now.
i agree, while it sucks as a hobbyist to see some of the old iron get crushed, but it's good for our awareness. all metal is valuable enough now that NONE should be thrown away. standard practice at my employer was for me do haul out about 50 pounds of stainless steel chips to the dumpster at the end of my shift everyday, until i pointed out they were throwing away a significant amount of money. they now have more recycling bins for metal waste. you want to hear a crazy prediction? i bet in the future we will be mining our old landfills for all the recyclable stuff we threw away in years past, metals, plastics etc. there, i helped steer it back on topic and a little less political.
One more problem with our scrap going over there---they are receiving some of the finest high nickel cast iron and low sulfur steel. What does an old popper John Deere Model B weigh? Do you think they would have allowed low quality cast to be used during production? In the past 10 years, I've welded many driveshafts made of newer alloy steel, and have been choked by fumes coming out of the parent metal, stinking sulphur. It doesn't happen with older steel It makes me f'n mad that we are losing our jobs and paying the folks overseas.
That's interesting, didn't they used to be our ENEMY? remember what happened to Rome when they sent their weapons to be made by the Barbarians?
One of the advantages of a long time is (if you want)&( im 69 years old) having the perspective of the past. Before ww2 the US was very much an island unto itself but after the war we emerged as the most powerful & influential country in the world & realized that in our best intrest & the worlds it was important to invest the rest of the world in our way of life & governance. Steel,oil,materials of all sorts along with even the most basic reqirements for life became comodities traded on the world stage. It should be no supprise to any one then that as these things are used by more & more people around the globe that the value of these would increase & the ability to purchase them would decrease the value of the currancy to purchase them. No amount of blaming the government, big corporations , lobour unions, or groups of people with special intrests such as the envioument or park land will serve any real soulution to the changes in or lives. This subject is germaine to the car hobby especially & most of us have such an intrest in the very life of these things. We cant predict what the future holds for this hobby but I can look at the past & when we have had ressesions, gasoline shortages, even the great deppression- people continued to build cars for a hobby & enjoy the satisfaction that it brings. bill wallace
Oh yeah...a buddy of mine is takin advantage of the price though. He's buyin' up every piece of old junk he can find and takin it to the scrap yard (not good old junk). He's been makin a killin' for very little effort!!!!
Well you know P8D, I look at it this way: I do happen to know a lot about economics, and I do believe in the evidence supporting the "Peak Oil" theory. But I also know that I am unlikely to reverse anyone else's beliefs, even if I consider them unfounded. And at my age, why should I try? Believe what ya'll like. I think the majority of the anger I read on here is due to the effect of oil prices on hot rodding. It's different now. But I'm a hot rodder, so why argue? Aint gonna matter when the missiles begin rainin' down on me anyway. Gonna get out the lawn chairs and pop a cold one. Got extra lawn chairs.
I have a question / food for thought. How much money do you think we as tax payers have pumped into forgein nations for economic development, in hopes of getting some type of win/win agreement in the future? Excample: We went to Iraq and removed a dictatorship. We have since tried to maintain stability and rebuild the country's economic structure, but what benifits have we seen? Gas prices are going up, inflation is up, and the dollar is down? The US is trying to rebuild the oil industry in there , but with no seen results? Scrap steel is on the rise because american industrie is not the main consumer. We are not at the prodution levels we once were cause a lot of commodities are imported, due to it being cheaper? Who created the problem? Us or Corperation heads? If you could make more money moving a prodution line over sea's would you if it was your choice, or would you have the personal ethic to hold those jobs here to support your fellow citizens? Greed? Everyone can point fingers, does it make it right? Kinda brings to mind a old saying " He who has the gold, makes the rules"
The main reasons that scrap is so high is that it is easier and cheaper to melt scrap than make new steel. The law of supply and demand also. The american dollar is weak and we have the supply and the chinese have the dollars. The shipping dont really cost them that much because if they dont haul something back they would still have the cost of returning with a emtpy ship. Also we have a chinese owned steel mill here in northeast ark named NUCOR YAMATO. They contrubute a lot to the economy of that area especially since the air base a blytheville ark closed. A friend works there he is a crain operator and they paid him over $80,000.oo last year and very little of his work was overtime and they are not union. There is another mill that makes railroad steel at newport ark.I have found out that lots of times you get to thinking that you are absolutly sure that someting is a certan fact and later learn that it wasnt that way after all. A wise man can change his mind a fool never does. I still aint gonna crush my cars. OldWolf
war...... they need copper for bullets and steel for bombs. thats my guess.scrap always seems to go up during wartime
A lot of this is about adapting. I'm stockpiling any parts that I think I might need, seeing as how they won't be available forever. I'm keeping the cars I like and trying to make connections to find more people that are like minded. I'm selling off whatever junk metal I have while the prices are high, using less energy in my home, driving my little pickup to work, combining trips, trying to find American products to buy, and staying active in local politics as best I can. I try to promote the idea that we as a country should try to keep as much industry here as possible ... and in case all this fails I build custom bicycles too. (Yes, my vintage Schwinns were made in Chicago and my Trek road bike was made in Wisconsin.)
...has anyone used the crap steel we are getting back from china/korea?? It's impure,has hard spots too much carbon,poor to weld on,...the list goes on and on, we GIVE them 1st rate AMERICAN steel and they SELL us 3rd rate steel at 3-x it's worth, WASSUP WIT DAT!!!!! (end of rant)
just want to thank all that have responded to this thread as it shows that we are all capable of speaking out,just need to figure out where and when.
Control the flow of oil, information, money, law's, ect. you control it all. Greed is just a by-product. Wake up to the fact, we have been "subject's'" for some time now. Look at the 'leader's" of this land right now. De-industrialization of America is the agenda. Scrap late model's, save the old stuff when you can. And pray, everday.
I dunno where you scrap cars at,but by me cars are worth less in scrap weight then just a load of metal. Which is BS because before they crush the cars they let them sit in the U-Pull-It yard for a month and sell what they can off of them.
I am not fro PA, lived there 5 years working in a staping plant. 1/2 the people I worked with either lost their job at the mill or had a relitave that last their job. There are 3 still going making various items and last I heard they were even hiring. My neughbor in PA got a job at one shortly before I left. As far as I foundry I can only speak for a GM one since that is where I work. After GM decided to close the stamping plant I worked at I transfered to the foundry. GM is investing in their plants here in the USA. One is in process of closing, in NY, but the work is being moved to the other plants I mentioned above. The people working there will either be able to retire, take a buy ouy or transfer to another plant. The foundry I work at we are loosing some work. The 3.8 v6, 8.1 V8 and the I4/I5 motors withing the next couple of years. But at the same time they are bringing in work. The Druamax diesel motors were brought to us from a non GM plant in Germany. We were given a aluminum motor (don't remember size) that will be going in the new crossovers and the small Caddys. We also were just given a new 4 cyl that will be 2 versions of the same motor. Like I said I can only speak for GM but they are investing in their plants here in the USA. They are also investing into other plants as well to build transmissions and a couple assembly plants to retool them for new and fuel efficant cars. As far as small castings I cans say much. I do know there is a small place in Ft Wayne, IN but I do not know what they make there.
one way to stop rising oil costs at the pump is to make the comodities traders play with real money instead of a margin call. Price on a barrel would drop 40 % overnight. Think silver back in the 80's. Most driving up the price can't play without the margin system.
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