Actually, I like the four-door. Give me mine just like above (the artist appears to already have tweaked the stance) but with a 312 Y-block and a Toploader 4-speed. -Dave
Hey guys, those are great cars... but if you look at the the beginning of my post... the Frontenac I'm talking about is a BIT older (no worries, I like the Canadian Falcons, too )
Gotta agree with you here, They do look good and they held a record before they were introduced to the public. I tend to llike the Mazda Miata DOHC if we're talking modern bangers as well as the Duratech and Z-techs from Ford. BTW-IDK who took the pic here but that sure is a nice Deep Purple 34 in the background It looks real good in my yard! Back on track here, Jim Ewing (original Super Bell Axle Co. owner)did a real bitchen traditional 29 A roadster back in like 77 and it had a Frontenac valve cover over a the valve train of the 153 ci Chevy II, Fluted lenses on stock A lights and Red Kelseys on Black body with a Blairs Speed Shop-Pasadena Ca. plate frame. That was one nice poor mans Fronty!
It only happend once! Bob W owned it at the time (and may still, I have lost touch). It is a very nicely executed Track T. All the details are spot on.
Sorry Mac, I tried to resist, but I just love that illustration I couldn't help but post it when the conversation shifted. Back to your regularly scheduled bangers... -Dave
Mac, I will try to get this thread back where it belongs (sorry to the Falcon afficianados). 1920 Frontenacs (or Monroes as some were named to bring in the $) were really somewhat unique racing cars. They also were the first American purposefully built racing cars to win at Indy. Louis Chevrolet was quite an innovator although many give much of the credit to Planche and Van Ranst. Here is a recent photo from the Indy Museum with a 1920 Frontenac engine (Monroe), the one that allegedly won at Indy in 1920 (Gaston Chevrolet). The bodywork on the 1920 and 1921 cars were almost identical. The #8 car is the 1921 Frontenac that Mulford drove at Indy in 1921. This car had an eight cylinder OHC that was identical to the winning 8 cylinder Frontenac. Louis Chevrolet was the first to win back to back at Indianapolis. Great cars that have not survived save for a few 1920 4 cylinder engines (I believe and hope that I am wrong).-Jim
Thanks Jim, Like I said- I've always loved those odd lines of the Monroe- almost like the nose of a Curtiss Hawk Hey Jim, do you remember someone posting some pics of the rear portion of an early sprint body? They wanted info, and I may have a clue as to what it is... Thanks again, Bill
Jim or anyone else. I'm trying to resurrect my Frontenac DOHC and I'm missing the gears that run the cams. You mentioned that you had the blueprints of the early 4 OHC any chance you'd have any info on the DOHC. This is not the A version but the model t version like the one that ran in the 1924 indy. -gerald
Gerald, Years ago I corresponded with Ed Roy who restored the Frontenac motor for Indy, the one pictured in the above post. He sent me some stuff on Frontenac but I have not run across it in years. I will have to do some digging to see what I can find. Admittedly though I am in the middle of a thrash to get my car back on the road so I can enjoy the cruise-in season. I may have a photograph/drawing of the actual Frontenac engines but I am not sure of the Ford based engines. He may have copied some of the valve gear off of his 3 liter 4cyl DOHC (1920) or the eight 1921 version, both Indy winners, but that would be a guess. Right after that he started on his Ford based conversions and I know he had been relying on Planche. His 1920 and 1921 valve gear worked pretty well so he may tried to adapt. I will take a look-Jim
Mac, I have just put my 28 RPU on the road. It has a 2 liter Zetec from a 2000 Ford Escort ZX2. It was standard trans so I got the clutch and flywheel, Quad4 Rods out of Denver has a bellhousing that I used to adapt a T5 tranny. I made my headers to go under the engine and run out the passengers side. I used Hilborn electronic injection. I have attached a couple of pics. Rex
Thanks Jim. Don't let it get in the way of your project, but I'd like to see how they geared their earlier heads. Might give me a few hints. If not then it would be great to look at. I love the front ends of those early Frontenacs too.-gerald
Rex, Looks great! And like I said in the other thread- had I known that the newer Zetecs have the exhaust on the passenger side, I probably would have held out for one. However, this is not the case (and finding a complete '97 Achieva on Espay for $180 didn't hurt, either). jimdillon, good to see you on again- missed your posts! Hey, if you DO happen to have drawings of Frontenac's other DOHC, please do share if at all possible! geraldc, I'm guessing that you are talking about this head?
the Frontenacs were things of beauty for sure, but I can't help but see that they were the poor man's version of what was happening in Europe was looking for pictures of something European and compareable? if that's possible.. found an older Alfa Romeo this would make a sweet hot rod motor
Paul, If I understand it correctly, that Alfa engine is acutally two 4 cylinder blocks bolted together- check out the seam that runs square around the middle of the engine (wish I could remember the name of that Alfa, but it's the end of the school year and my brain is fried from doing grades, inventory, etc)
That's it Rex. Of course mine doesn't look that good yet. The aluminum that I have was cast by a man named Parker (I think in the 70s') The only original parts I have are the iron head, the cams and the cam tables, but that's more then most have. Paul you're right about the Fronty DO's being a poor mans version of what was going on in Europe. That was the beauty of the Fronty line. The Chevrolet team made a race car out of a mass produced assembly line car. The most success they had at Indy was in 1923 when they came in 5th place, but it beat a lot of those expensive specialty Euro cars. In 1924 when the DO showed up at INDY the specialty cars would have none of it and the DO finished way back and never was competitive again. But the dirt tracks across the US were a different story. The DO's and then in 27 the SOHC's dominated for the most part in the dirt. When they showed up they expected to win. They were competitive in the dirt until the war years.-Gerald
geraldc, You are one lucky dog! Any chance of getting some clos-up pics of the parts you had cast? I need to fabricate something close to that for my Quad4 and any detailed pics would help (especially with a ruler sitting by the part)!
Built a Quad 4 537 HP. Hard to work on and not alot of parts available. Ford gave up on the Z-tec to persue the DURATEC. This is the Ford in Ford's future DuraTecs are capable of 1400 HP. Gemini EFI
Gemini, I thought long and hard about the Duratec, especially because the intake/exhaust sides match the Fronty. Problem is I found a good, running Quad4 (they threw the '97 Achieva in as well) for $180!!! When all is sadi and done, I may switch to a Duratec, but for now, the Quad4 will do nicely (and I'm not looking to build high horsepower as the car it will be going into will be nice and light). The one thing that is still plaguing me though, is finding a cheaper bellhousing/adapter for RWD than what's currently out there- ANY ideas??? I've considered the thought of using a formed steel housing and grafting the correct bolt pattern onto it...
Great thread this. Speaking of Alfa how about the all aluminum twin cam four? Sure the exhaust is on the driver side, but they imported lots of these into the U.S. the 1970s/80s in the Alfa Spider. Pre 1987 is best for the classic Alfa DOHC - after that they kinda got too modern looking. Spica Injection is junk but Euro DCOE Weber manifolds are readily available and there are Weber DCOE type EFI throttle bodies available. 5 speed trans is typical Italian - crunchy when cold and week second gear ratios. Rear live axle is bitchin looking with aluminum diff and discs - looks kinda like a Bennett or Turco from a 1930s midget. You can pick up a whole car for cheap as they rust like all Italian cars of that era. Engine weighs 280 lbs fully dressed.
Gang, While rumaging thru my "future build book" last night - a 4-banger / lowboy eco closed cab pickup, , I found that article I saved on the Alfa DOHC powered track roadster. If you have the October 99 Street Rodder lying about, look for the article on the black buggy owned (then) by James Stroupe of San Anselmo, CA. The car was build by Brizio. This car had a great frame and was a very nice build That is the article I mentioned elsewhere on the HAMB, because NOWHERE in those pages does it tell you the motor is an Alfa. As you might have figured out, I'm an old Alfa owner / fan, so I knew what the motor was. When I emailed SR about it back then, they didn't want anyone to know it was one of them "furrin" motors. The Offy looks a LOT like an Alfa - which preceeded it. While I don't know if an Alfa will be in my eco rod or not, if I can pull it off it just might. These little babbies will run 8K all day long, sound just wonderful and are all aluminum. I had a 1300cc GT junior back in 1970. It had perfect hemi-heads, valves at 45 degrees, a center plug (two on the GTA), sodium cooled valves, cross-flow heads as slick as a whistle and two side draft DCOEs. That big fined aluminum sump holds 7 quarats of oil, too!!! The matching clutch and 5-speed is a wonder to work. The diffs are pretty cool, too. Reportedly one of the best handling live axle cars ever built, with GM style trailing arms and coil springs. And you haven't lived until you have seen an Alfa sliding block rear end (works like a Watts link). If you are a REAL Alfa fan, you will get yourself a 1600 or larger GTA or GTAM spec motor... about 225+ hp in factory. Perhaps someone knows of a SCCA production racer with a spare? Or who builds them for the road racers? Later, Gary
Weasel, are those Alfa rears posi? Are there parts available to make them positraction? What's the height, width and length of the engine and how much power/mileage can be expected from a mild tune up?
Condor. I can do that for you. But it will take some time. I'm about to be gone until the 30th. I may need a reminder, but be glad to help out. Let me know what pieces and parts you'd like to see.
Want the Zetec but the exhaust comes out on the driver side???? Sit the driver on the righthand side then.... That's what we do over here old chap.
Blackjack, Not trying to save my skin!!! I wanted to find an engine that was close in design to the Frontenac DOHC, which ran the exhaust on the passenger side. Like I said, if the Zetec head was designed that way (and if the Duratec was less expensive), I would have picked that over the Quad4.
Okay, time for the dumb question of the evening. The Quad4 I picked up is set up for an automatic transmission, so I picked up a stock flywheel over the weekend. Does the flywheel now need to be rebalanced for the crankshaft, or will it be balanced if I can find out how to line it up correctly?
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