I've got what I was told was a '39 ford banjo rear. But, I'm not sure if that's true or not. It's 10-spline input, has wide-five drums, and does not have spring perches built into it, just brackets to bolt on radius rods. Does this sound like a '39? I tried searching for info, but couldn't find photos, just a bunch of contradicting descriptions. (BTW, if there's anyone out there with uber knowledge, I think a complete breakdown of the different banjos complete with actual photos and descriptions would be an AMAZING tech article!) Also, before anyone says it, I checked http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_home.htm with no luck. All of their pictures, with exception of a few, are just drawings of the internals of the center section. I'm getting way off topic. Back to my initial question. I'm trying to tear the thing down, but can't get the drums off. I'm afraid to beat on them with a hammer because I fear hitting too hard and bending something or breaking something. The only things on the backing plates are two bolts with springs behind them. They both turn so far one way, then the other, and stop. I'm assuming these hold the shoes to the backing plate as I can't find anything like on modern drum brakes that would do this job. Is this a correct assumption? There's no hole to loosen the adjuster because I'm fairly certain these don't have self adjusters. Am I right in thinking this? So anyway, what's the proper procedure for getting these drums off?
Sounds like a '36 with later hydraulics...I assume the adjuster nuts are big, I think 13/16...turn both so wrench is swinging UP to loosen. You must get hold of a good antique puller or replica that pulls from the center of hub. All else is hopeless unless they were inadequately tightened...
Where the end of the axle comes the the drum, there is a ridge that goes around that "snout", do you suppose a three jaw bearing/gear puller would work? Also, are wide-five wheels worth anything? I think they're 16x4. Anywho, thanks for the help.
The ridge is the puling surface...a good 3-jaw MIGHT have a chance. These things are often hard to get off even with the very best specialized pullers.
First Bruce is correct, if this is a 10 spline pinion with tabs welded on the axle tubes for the radius rods and a wide 5 bolt pattern its a 1936 rear. Now if your backing plates have a provision for a hydraulic wheel cylinder at 12 noon then thats a bonus, if the backing plates have levers at the bottom they are mechanical brakes. No matter how hard it is to spend a buck specialty on tools, if you are going to continue to fool with Ford flathead parts you are going to be removing rear brake drums. The only way to do this easily is with the correct tool. The KR Wilson rear hub puller is repro'd by Windfield Tool Works, part number ABV-156, now its a $130 part but once you use one you will now its value. Attempting to use a jaw style puller will only damage something however there are some 3 jaw style that use the lug studs for anchors They may work but they do not like the shock of a heavy hammer to break the taper bond. If you are serious the number for the company is 631-928-3316.
Yes, they have hydraulic brake line at the top. With copper brake lines to boot. They also have piece of a cable coming out which I'm assuming is the parking brake. I plan on tossing the drums and backing plates. Well, not exactly "tossing them" but I don't plan on using them. I'm planning on converting to the '39 lincoln style brakes and a standard bolt pattern. Thanks for the help guys.
Well, let me specify; I don't plan on using them on this build. I definetely dig the look of the wide-fives, but they don't suit the style I'm shooting for this time. But, if I ever feel like getting rid of them, I'll be sure to give you first dibs.
Awesome.... Wide-5's look cool but it does have to be on the right car.... But yeah, keep me in mind...
Ok, about the job at hand, getting them OFF. Dick's right about the tool. Yep, He's done more of them than most of us. Or, Use the three arm puller. You can also rent them at damn near any Rental outfit. Hook it on and start tightening er down. The removable handle should have a double ended knob to pound on with a good size hammer. Make sure that each lug is tight to each arm of the puller,evenly. Be sure to have the spindle bolt threaded on a ways. Start cranking, and expect a major "POP". the taper of the spindle makes the hub really explode whe she breaks loose. Brace yourself. And BINGO! There you have it. Be sure to keep the Keyway and possibly a sleeve from each side. Did I mention having the Bolt on the spindle a bit? That hub will take out anything in it's path if ya don't. Think safe.. B
if you dont want the drums then score them with a cutting wheel and whack em with a hammer. they will break off
The three-arm-to lugs can remove them, but is capable of warping or even cracking really stuck ones. Three arm hooks to hub might do job better, might break off pulling ring. Find a nearby HAMBer with right tool!
i dont know anything about this particular rear end..but. is there attachement points for the brake hardware on the backing plates..if so cut and or remove all brake attachement hardware from the back side of the backing plates and let the brake shoes fall into the drum..the drums will come off than because nothing will be holding it on.
what theres no brake hardware that comes thru the backing plates on this axle brake set up? like the shoe spring retainer pins? nothing? really..i need pictures..
how are the shoes held on to the backing plates of this type of set up? Im really curious to see it. I have had plenty of modern axles setups that have the drums held captive by the ridge worn into the drum by the brake shoes..i have always been able to get them off by cutting the small pin that retains the shoes..and or un bolting the wheel cyl. things just kinda fall apart inside and ..presto the drum comes off..
There's plenty of brake hardware that shows from the outside, but there's also some that does not show that cannot be cut from outside. But that's not his problem. He can't get the hubs off the tapered axle. And when the hubs won't come off, the backing plates and brake guts are the least of your worries.
And...the tapered fit is advanced by a nut tightened well beyond 100 ft pounds and decades of rust. That taper when properly tightened takes you to a level of effort that is SCARY...you have to work at a point where you half expect even a KRW puller or a Blue Point dreadnaught to break. If you can get a Ford drum off without feeling like you've had a near death experience, it wasn't tightened correctly!
That puller on E-Gay doesn't look that hard to fabricate...... Has anybody out there made their own with success...???
A lathe, a drill press, and a band saw. Works like a charm-similar to the one on E-Bay but modified for ease of mfg.
I got a million of em! Hah! Its very simple. Take my advise on poppin em off and disassemble. Super easy. Take pics like I do. It helps! See ya. B
its the drum hub thats stuck on the tapered part of the axl,not the brakes stuck in the drum!.-loosen- the nut and drive around the block a few times,it should pop loose (i have the correct puller but in a pinch you can try that )
Just remember that under-tightened axle nuts are the main reason that the banjos got a bad reputation for "holding up under stress".... So, when you're going around the block, take it slow and easy and take your turns without using the throttle to steer.... Also, when you put 'em back on, torque 'em down to (if I remember correctly) at least 150 ft-lbs....
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