Driving a really period car is often a balance of frustration and understanding. By that I mean, the hack traditionalist (read: me) is constantly fighting things that don't quite make sense to... <BR><BR>To read the rest of this blog entry from The Jalopy Journal, click here.
Amen. Fight the good fight. I think that It's when you consider all the little things together that a car becomes special and gains it's "personality". Yours has "it".
a couple of my freinds were pestering me to install a Pertronix conversion into my straight 8 due to a slight missfire, i wont do it either.... moreso to become better educated with points ignitions and not to mention the car ran fine for 60 yrs with its current ignition, why change now? old stuff takes maintenance and as car guys we accept this.... i choose to be under the hood more often than my late model truck. as an aside, i wont fault anyone for converting their ignition to electronic, one less thing to worry about for another thousand miles or so... but its not what i want for my ride. good read... learned something to boot.... and jimmy definately knows his shit
Hokay. I think the HC points are Ford points with a second spring riveted into the stack. Does that check?? If so, the extra tension is what is killing them. Too much for the street...this is for a drag car that can be re-fiddled frequently.
One thing you SHOULD have in your tool kit is a piece of emory cloth......for "cleaning" points.... Also, sounds like the wear problem with the points rubbing block is with using the old parts itself....the block may just be too brittle (it's old) and wearing prematurely, being it's old. Maybe a modern or new rubbing block could be epoxied/glued/rivited, etc, to the NOS point set.... A dielectric grease should work fine....
Do you use the little square felt pads over the end of the rocker tip? Steal some off another distributor and lube em up.
H&C did do that... and I have a set, but Keith told me the same thing - not for street. H&C also manufactured street points and they may have just been Ford points for all I know... But they don't have the extra spring.
Good/bad point geometry 101: If the pivot hole is off, a common failing of resto house China points, one thing will identify the problem: You cannot get point gaps and overall dwell of the pair anywhere near right at the same time. If point geometry is right, setting the gaps to spec will result in individual points and the pair having very close to right dwel. How to figger:
Just to throw in .02. I was looking at the Pertronix Catalog. They list some Flathead applications. Keep the traditional look of the Dizzy and wires but do away with the points. I've used Pertronix stuff in the past with no issues and have sold lots of them back in the day to School systems for use in their gas powered buses.
did you check the spring tension if over 17 oz it will eat the rubbing block alive there was a spring gage back in the day
<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Bruce, Your depth of knowledge never fails to amaze me. You are the man!.....Don.</TD></TR><TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"><TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on"> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Damn...thought I brought in the tool...but go to Home Depot and head for the big rack of tape measures. You will see an angle-finding tool that is two long clear plastic rulers and a pivot. Near those will be an attachment for the tool, a nice little protractor wheel in clear plastic about the size of the distributor. Grab a couple to hack on...affix one to an old rotor, any Ford V8 1942--56, must have good fit at center. Scribe lines on back matching Ford dwell pattern, blacken the scribe lines with a sharpy, spray back of the thing flat white. You now have a deluxe analog distributor analyzer...
What happened to the crab distributor Ed, (34fivewindow) did for you? I had him do one for me after reading about yours, my motor has never ran better than it does now with the modified crab, motor pulls harder than ever.....maybe hard enough to pull right past a certain Model A coupe........Ha Ha
1942-48 Ford dwell: Points each have their own dwell (dwellings??), their cycles overlap giving a longer total dwell to the whole package...there is a really nice diagram in the Canadian '46 shop manual...available in repro for those who can stand to touch repro paper, GET ONE if you have any '32--48 Ford!
Go to a real parts house and buy a small tube of silicon points lube. Standard - pretty sure - makes it, comes in a blue tube. I bought a tube maybe 20 years ago, the parts guy said it would be a lifetime supply and he was right. If you can't find any, lemme know and I'll put some in a baggy and send it to you. It's my opinon the lube that comes with many points sets is just common grease and doesn't cut it as a points lube. Along those same lines, get points with a fiber rubbing block and not plastic. The fiber pores accept the grease readily and plastic doesn't. Don't use the condensers with the cardboard end cap where the wire comes out , they seem to fail early on. Get a condenser with a molded - making it well sealed against moisture - rubber end cap where the wire comes out. Bruce has got a good point about the dual springs. A race-o item and they work ok, but the added pressure wears the rubbing block down pretty fast. The silicon point lube will help there. A worn dime makes a good emergency points gap tool. A practiced eyeball helps as well. If the points close up on the road and the engine starts stumbling along it will sound like a way-rich carb problem. Just open the points gap and you'll be able to get home with a good running engine. A points set should last 10,000 - 12,000 miles on a V8 easy. Four cylinders wear points a little faster due to the more abrupt shape on the distributor cam. You can also put any make of automotive condenser into the ignition circuit. It may end up outside the distributor body ala DuCoil or even up under the dash if you like. As long as the condenser is in the right place of the ignition circuit it doesn't make any difference where it's at physically....
Are you sure it's the cam wearing down or could it just be the rubbing block? Seems like it would take a pretty serious rubbing block to wear the metal down. I was always told the rubbing block was designed to wear first. One piece missing from yours that is on more modern points setups is a small felt piece that is oiled and rubs on the cam to lube it. Perhaps you could cook up something similar. FWIW, you can call me a pansy. I did switch to a pertronix on my hemi because the thought of ignition issues under full boost scared me. The points were working well up to then. The Mallory Super Mag magneto that'll be going on the dragmaster has points so maybe that'll redeem me.
Ryan, don't feel bad I'm sure most of us have done similar things. Your right. Sometimes we just need to slow down and smell the roses.
Mine was a prototype that had some bugs... I sent it back to Ed for further R&D. ..... C9 - I will look for that stuff. Thanks! ..... Kerry, its the rocker or rubbing block that is wearing. Not the cam.
See, you guys have a healthy attitude and a desire to do things this way. I do not. I think a bunch of the jabbing, suggestions, and complaining comes from the fact that many guys think the way they do things is the only way to do it. I also have seen that some of the guys that give lip service to hardcore traditionalism do not understand what that can mean and do not have the ability to approach it as a challange or consider it fun. They want to say they are hardcore trad and really don't feel it...its all show. So they stay frustrated with the cars and don't have any fun. I am glad guys like you do things your way and hopefully you can dig my way also. I tired of the who is cooler than who stuff...but at the same time thank the lord some of you do have this outlook. Myself, I would never probably build a car using all old tech...I love the look of traditional hot rodding and do some on my cars. I like looking at high tech stuff to an extent and I love looking at cars that are built using all old tech (for a lack of a better term) because it is intersting and cool to look at. I also love the tidbits that I would never have heard of that come out when you guys talk about this stuff. The rocker thing is pretty neat to know now...who knows if it will ever come in handy for me, the worlds worst mechanic, but it is still cool. It's all good.
They came on the older Delco sets. Universal application so you could reverse them to match the rotation. Apply a drop of oil and away you go.
Ohhhh my friend... I am much worse. Promise. Now, I don't blame a guy a single bit for modernizing their flathead. Less trouble, less worries, etc... I just kind of have fun dealing with these issues. It's a good way for a hack like me to learn... and I've got a ton of learning to do. And when I do finally beat a problem and get something to work right? I dunno that there is a better feeling. The HAMB rules... This thread proves it. All of this advice is good stuff.
heres inside a mallory ryan. my finger shows the felt that rubs on the lobe on the distirbutor not the best picture but it gives ya an idea!!! and it holds a bunch of oil like stated before
Shrum, I didn't miss the "point". Messing with points constantly is like shoveling snow. The first few times it's "fun" and "exciting" to have to get out there and do it. After a while it becomes a pain. So you either choose to keep shoveling or you move somewhere that doesn't snow. You get my point?
Engine Pro 5X isn't kidding about using just a drop of oil. Too much oil can get on the points and electricity can no longer flow from contact to contact. An old joke, put a drop of oil on the contacts and the car won't start most times....
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