Salt flat special... ed

I am not sure what you mean by saying the rules are "Lax". However, Dan Warner, who has posted in this thread already, is the person who will be inspecting your car should you set a record. So if you have a specific question ask and there is a very good canch it will be answered

 

What I ment by lax is in the upper ends of NHRA its rule book says for example you need to have drivers hoop intersect @ ____ angle with 1/4 tig fillet weld 360 degees around using filler rod consisting of ________ if using chromoly need rod ______.

The drla rules just kind of said build a cage that looks like this out of 1.5 inch tubing and away you go. but I was mainly concerned with the gussets I am used to them being @ the intersection od the weld and tiged on both sides not placed on the outside of the joint with stich welding. So if I don't do that will it flunk using a superior design or is that OK? for the build I was origonaly thinking about building a NHRA G dragster inside a bottle(belly tank) But looking @ the DRLA rules that I was told are SCTA copies basicly it does not look nearly that stringent on chassis construction as what I am used to.

The other question is why are the parachutes in a tube I looked and couldn't find out the reason can you use the bag launched ones ?

 

Many of the full bodied cars run regular chutes.

I'm assuming the lakesters and Streamliners use
tubes because they are smaller.Better aerodynamics.

 

Bonneville rules have evolved as they have because of experiance. The gusset on the outside, stich welded, is to allow accumulated salt to be washed away. You do want the car to last awhile don't you? Time has shown this small thing to be important. Many people do not realize the differance between Bonneville and the drags or even NASCAR. What you think you know may not apply. I run My chute in a bag. Thinking of going to a tube.

 

I am going to have to take your word on the gussets because I was thinking that would allow salt to get in there unless you take them off from time to time. I am use to them being in the center of the tubes on the inside of the joint and tig welded on both sides not on the inside or the outside. this is why I am asking the questions becouse some of this is very forign to me it is kind of like telling me up is down because till i started to do research you could have never told me you could make a tube chassis out of square tubing.

 

There are some pretty hard core Bonneville racers on Washington State. Danny Boy Apples comes to mind. Might help to look some of them up and see what's going on.

 

http://www.chicagochopperworks.com/brian_gusset.jpg

That is what I am talking about I know this is a dorky bike gusset but it is all I could find right now. I am used to this kind where it sits in the center and is welded on both sides.

Or the "taco" gusset where it wraps around like a taco

http://www2.comco.ne.jp/~hotstaff/image/nak-z5.jpg

I can see if you had holes in your Taco gusset how debris gould be trapped but if they were solid I dont know how anything would get caught in there.

Now with the rule book gusset with it on the out side I think a ton of crap would get caught up in there because it is past the apex of the tube creating a valley on the back side of the gusset plate and i dont see how there is any real streingh in that way because you are counting on the shear streingh of your welds not the plate pushing against the wall of the tube when it fails. I am not trying to change the rule book but i am trying to find out if either of the 2 above methods are also acceptable it says shoud not shall in the book so that is why I am asking how the Tech guys operate. I have had these discussions for hours before on the rule book verses opinion of what the rule book says.

I dont want to pic fights or start conflict I really want to know and If this is somthing that is no big deal I wont sweat it but the impression I have gotten is this is the most nit-picky tech in existance. If that is not the case that is fine I am just trying to comply. I shoould probably call them for my questions just trying to get the take of the people who have been there and done it.

 

As you have noticed the rule book is specific on what they want. I don't see how that is "Lax". Different than what you expected maybe but very clear.

 

OT, but I did my Z car cages differently from that pic of the 'taco' gusset. I had the rear legs attached to the top/front part of the shock tower. Short and stiff. Running the rear legs to the very back as in the pic adds nothing to chassis rigidity [ on a Z car ] and if the car gets hit in the back the whole cage gets whacked out of shape causing lots of extra repair work or outright loss of the whole body and cage.

 

Rules clarification questions will best be answered via the new for 2008 clearing house: [email protected].

Unkl Ian, specificaly what Comp Coupe question answers were you looking for?

DW

 

the glass ones are based off an original modified record setting (early 50's) p-38 drop tank which is the correct tank you would want.

 

Actually as I read the rule book it says "perferably stitch welded on the outside". I know why they want it stitch welded but not why they want it on the out side. Since it says "perferably on the outside" I would say you can center it if that is what you want. Dan, why is the gusset on the outside and not centered?

 

Trying to understand the roof chopping rules,
and how they are applied.

Some cars have the angle of the roof changed,relative to the body.
I first noticed this on the Studebakers.

Stock:



Notice the stock side window is taller in front.







Top and bottom of side windows are parallel.
So the angle of the roof to the body has been changed.



Rule
"5.7. Chopping:
The removal of metal from a body component in such a fashion
as to reduce the overall height of the component without changing
the shape at top or bottom.Tops must be widened and/or lengthened to maintain the stock silhouette of the vehicle.
IE: No laid back windscreens.

5.9. Contour.
Contour is the configuration of the external sheet metal....
In the special case of chopped tops,contour is considered
to have been preserved as long as the angular relationship
of the top to the body proper is not changed.

6.3. Modified Category
This category encompasses coupes,sedans,and pickups
(with full stock beds),unaltered in height,width and contour,
and with all the stock panels mounted in original relationship
to each other ......."

6.3.1 says "the front and rear chop must be equal".

How do you make the roof wider or longer,
without changing the shape at the top ?

How do you chop the top,same amount front and rear,
AND change the angle of the roof relative to the body,
AND still maintain the angular relationship
of the top to the body proper (contour) ?

How do you change the angle of the rear window,
and still "maintain the stock silhouette of the vehicle" ?

#974,pictured above,set a record last year,
so I have to assume it is legal.
But by reading the rules,I have to wonder about the roof.
Not pointing fingers at anyone,just trying to understand.

And if I don't understand these rules,
there is a good chance i don't understand others as well.

Any help would be great.

 

Yes Rich I was talking about why the gusset is not centered on the tube I was taught you always want the gusset to do the shear (work) of the bracing and never the weld so in theory with a gusset centered on the tube the gusset takes all the force of the hit when the tube starts to fail and the tube weld shears the gusset welds are just to locate the gusset and the metal of the gusset take the force as the tube has to try and fold over the top of it.

But I think I got alot of my questions answered today. I work with a guy on my Submarine that was On the Buckeye Bullet team for the record ( wow small world) and his brother is on the fuel cell car team and he explained a lot about what they wanted. And some things about parachute dynamics of drag racing vs LSR and the leingh of the chute lines and dynamics. we explained our design and he said it sounded pretty good so far. He was do alot of NHRA to SCTA conversion for me. He didn't understand the gusset thing either, but I am over it I was thinking a couple of things like the NHRA is also expecting you to smack a Jersey barrier at about 250+ which does not give then barrel roll the rest of the way down the track. that might be the difference in requirements.

But I was reading on scoops and that threw me for a loop as far as the statement that no scoop is allowed to extend past the outer edge of the body so my plan for ducting the heads and cyls may need some revisitation. I am curently composing a list of questions to send to the SCTA directly so I dont waste everybodys time but I appreciate everyones help so far this might be a lot of fun. still need to find a tank though.

Dan

 

Don't forget to share pictures.....

 

Will do I am geting clost to getting the ball rolling I will start a build thread Because I am definitly guilty of hijacking this thread Sorry

I hope to be able to go in 2009 the car should be ready but it depends on my deployment scheduld (military 17 years now) .

Dan

 

Theres already VW's on the salt, any old car is cool . And going fast in one is even cooler.
I here the same conversation now as there was back when the EMPI
inch pincher ran 10's with no after market parts in site. Thats the age old combo, the lightest car
you can find with the most HP. And a V8 weighs like 600 lb's and a VW motor weighs maybe 150 lb's ,
thats a no brainer.
This guy is going for the fastest VW bus in the world. VW power.Why not .

 

Uncle Ian,

I was away from this thread for awhile, not trying to run away from your question. The basic top chop deal is to bring the top staright down, maintaing the stock profile. Because we run so many different cars a simple "blah, blah ... blah" doesn't work. If the top is not radically pitched, looks to be in the same relationship it will be OK. A 1/4" difference from stock will not cause an undo performance advantage. The Guam Bomb car has the body pitched on the frame is illegal as it currently sits. Changing the OEM relationship will sometimes be adverse to what you think looks good after some six pack engineering.

If you have a concern with the plans for the body on your race car please take advantage of the rules question email address, this is a new service we are tryinh this year in an attemt to be more responsive to our entrants:

[email protected]

Good luck,
DW

 

Looking at my first post, spelling is apparently not a requirement for me,

DW

 

Great,thanks.