First they came for the tuners, but I did not speak, as I am not a tuner...

Cool....what's this pin for?

 

In government class my senior year, I learned that the search and seizure laws apply only to "homes"... and anything that is mobile is exempt. Meaning, even if you have a mobile home that you live in, there is no warrant needed to search it. Cars, trucks, etc. are the same way. Why? I'd guess it'd have something to do with them boys that started NASCAR way back when...

We used to do the same thing when we were "kids" back in the early 90's. The cops were pretty much cool to us, after they moved us to the courthouse parking lot to gather- it was outside of "town" and that way they knew where we were. Win/win.

While I agree that this is an unfortunate situation in this case, I think the greater picture is that the California Assembly convened on the issue, and are now aware of such "assemblies". This one was for the tuners. The next one may be for the rodders... how long until it's the Moose, Elks, or Catholics.

Wake up people. These are the people YOU GUYS in California elected to office! If you didn't vote, you cast your own die.

I've said since I was a kid, there needs to be an abolition of the two party system. Greed has taken over politics, and the only reason people become political is for power and money..

Hmph.

jay

 

as strong a dislike i have for these type of vehicle, and MOST of the people who drive them(dont shitstorm me, they're not all douchebags, and i know some of you are into these as well as hotrods) this is just fucked up. they werent even racing... yet. i guess they gotta pay for those photo enforced intersections somehow

 

^ I fought the law, and the law won. So fix your laws. Missouri is looking at abolishing the annual PITA inspections.

 

Funny someone mentioned that they don't think "The Man" will come after people with 50's and older cars, well just because they are more familiar. Seems to me a good many wealthy Jewish Germans thought the same in the early thirties - well because they had money.....

While I am in no way tryign to compare situations, I am trying to point out the thought process......

 

That point is well taken being somewhat of a WWII fan. My Point is, Being Hot Rod People, If a part of the crowd is making trouble which make us all look bad. There is no reason to point at the guys who make it all stop at a property owners request. Ive got several Gear Head Buddies who are also Policemen, their shit is as fast as anyone elses. When off duty, they hang in the same lots that we are all being thrown out of at a fast pace. Some of these laws are just F'd, and a good amount of the Ideas for them are coming from CA. Its not just the clothes, hair styles and cars that the state influences. Our states copy those stupid things. So when the Fruits & nuts in the CA government say lets stop these kids from being killed street racing....we get that shit here in the corn too. Why are they making these laws....besides the safety of some kids stupid enough to be racing in over populated streets, for the revenue, as someone already said. If you didnt have the Bad attn....Kids being killed street racing, then there would not be that attn. If you didnt have Idiots doing dohnuts & burnouts in the parking lost....then wed still be sitting in those lots. The resturant owners were happy! Unfortunatly the only lot that was big enough for the cars is now an enemy. I think its Partially policing ourselves, it is our hobby.

 

they just dont understand

 

Whoa there pardner! I don't know who your teacher was, but I can assure you he was full of shit, and provide a litany of USSC cases to bear it out. Let's start with the OBVIOUS one, the 4th Amendment itself:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Notice..."and effects". This has been construed directly to cars, buses, airplanes and boats hundreds of times. A mobile home is a domicile (still a home) and is absolutely free of exemption in this amendment. Notice herein the 'probable cause' ajoinder....this is the #1 thing cops forget when violating the law. This is why if you are stopped on the highway a cop MUST ASK PERMISSION to search your car unless you were detained in the act of a felony..like driving a getaway car or a stolen car. Cops have become VERY good at making this request SOUND like an order, but it is still a request. Another favorite is the 'dope dog'. You say no, they bring in a dog to sniff the exterior (legal), he lights up and they have probably cause. BUT what they fail to tell you is that the US DoJ estimates that 93% of US Currency has been 'drug tainted' by drugs. Illegal narcotics to grandma's geritol. What did the dog smell? this issue is soon for USSC review and is a HUGE case for law enforcement. Now, lets get the crowd really fired up! Dog sniffs your car, signals a positive. Cops search but find nothing (of course, it's your car ) drug related. BUT; they find $5,000 in cash in the glovebox. No problem you think...I HAVE A RECEIPT FROM MY BANK!!
DOESN'T MATTER! The cops can seize your $; and you have to go to court to get it back! Usually the cops will play nice, and somewhere along the line offer you a small percentage back if you drop the lawsuit...NICE! WHY DO THEY DO THIS? Because seized $ is given to the cops for shiny new cars, hyper sensitive drug dogs and spanky new equipment. Sometimes (California), this 'Receipts from Interdiction' can total way over HALF of a departments budget. What do they do when the dope dealers find a new route? Shut down the new Drug Taskforce? Uhh....don't think so....
The USSC ruled this an unconstitutional conflict of interest. So the cops found a way around the USSC!!!! They call in a Federal Agent....FBI, DEA, Park Ranger, whatever...to 'seize the money', which he IMMEDIATELY renders back to the locality; kinda like you tipping a waiter. Trouble is, the GMan NEVER REALLY HAD THE MONEY! This is also up for USSC review, and the black robes ain't happy about somebody 'end arounding' their rules!
Now, as I get off the soapbox, I leave you one tidbit. The NEXT time you vote for a President Of The United States, ask yourself what the NUMBER ONE priority in your decision should be. Need a hint? HE PUTS THE GUYS IN THE ROBES THAT MAKE THESE CALLS.......FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES!!

 

Well put Sharpe427.

One problem for probably half of the tuners involved is that they probably had the cars sitting there with the hoods open.
This was more like ground sluicing ducks in a cornfield.


It would be interesting to find out exactly who put out the order to send around 50 patrol cars with officers to a parking lot with the expressed purpose of searching the cars in the lot.

This was an planned action probably due to someone higher up pulling the Chief's chain Be it state or city.

If it was a sweep to look for stolen cars, engines an parts, so be it but it but it smacks of harassment when a cop tells a kid sitting in a parking lot that "I'll have your car crushed" because it has non stock parts on it.

I'll admit that the tuner bunch brings on a lot of their own troubles. Fart pipes, massive audio systems and unsafe driving habits on a regular basis do bring unwanted but possibly well deserved attention to them.

I just wonder what will happen when a couple of those "kids" go into court with good lawyers armed with the fact that the cars were sitting in a parking lot, not racing not running and most of the owners were not sitting in said cars at the time.

 

I am sorry if I go ranting on this issue, but to me it is a personal insult when somebody decides to go screwing around with the old scrap of parchment that happens to be the foundation for our government, which just happens to be the best one ever devised, btw. I am NOT an ACLU type. I am DAMN sure not a tree hugging greenie. I AM however a veteran that believes that WE have let OUR government run over us long enough...too long, really. It is time to reassert the vision of the founding fathers and make the government serve the people instead of the other way around. Only way I see to get there is bitch loud and often when the G'ment steps on toes...even if they aren't your toes...........yet.
MrChev brings up a good point...and I wonder how much OTHER crime was being perpetrated while so many resources were involved here..

 

Thank god for SEMA. A government should fear its citizens, and never the other way around. So vote people. W loves the police state.

 

We will never have a police state....thats taken care of in the Second Amendment:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.



But here's a link to make you stay vigilant, anyway...If I were Daddy Homeowner......it'd been fugly: Hope they like Root Beer!

http://blog.austindefense.com/articles/search-and-seizure/

 

I dunno guys...

I see this as nothing more than the police cleaning up a problem area. We know they weren't there playing Scrabble and drinking Kool-Aid. They were littering... cranking their little bass machines and causing trouble. That's what happens at gatherings like this. I've been there (thankfully with good ole USA horsepower and 10+ years ago)

These kids were setting up races then a group of them will hot foot it out the the 'spot' probably speeding and ignoring traffic laws and common courtesy along the way.

This wasn't a tea party they broke up....

Honestly I think alot of you are paranoid...

 

But no violations noted for 'littering' or noise....90% for window tint and no front plates.....hmmmm......just how John Dillinger started. If you take away a place for kids to peacefully gather...what do you expect them to do?

These kids were setting up races then a group of them will hot foot it out the the 'spot' probably speeding and ignoring traffic laws and common courtesy along the way.

Sounds like you have experience in this illegal and reckless activity. As the board has voted and found you likely of repeating the offenses contained, we order that you report with your highly modified and speed enhanced terror machine to the local DMV for prompt crushing.

 

Fuck California.

 

Somebody just pointed something out to me after seeing my link above. Why is it that the most LIBERAL parts of the country have so much of this going on? Kalifornia, Austin, etc...Something in the water? Or do the liberals just insist on everybody being in lockstep for the 'greater good'??

 

And it sounds like you are assuming just like the police did...

I hung out there but was always respectful. No burnouts... I kept things clean. Hell my ElCamino was used as a trash can more times than I can remember. Sure I was there for street racing and if I were to get caught I would accept the consequences.

I'm not condoning the actions of the police... not at all. I'm just stating that this wasn't the act of the police picking on the innocent...

This was obviously a problem area that needed correcting. Crushing the cars was way too extreme... but they modified those cars and knew the ramifications of their actions.

Yes it sucks. Yes I think the police waaay overstepped their bounds. But this talk of Nazi and gestapo... sounds a little premature to me.

 

And it sounds like you are assuming just like the police did...

Exactly! And if the note were DMV..how would you feel?

Sure I was there for street racing and if I were to get caught I would accept the consequences.

As long as they were reasonable; so would I!

I'm not condoning the actions of the police... not at all.

Uhh...sounds like you are, as a matter of fact!

I'm just stating that this wasn't the act of the police picking on the innocent...

"Innocent until PROVEN guilty." The police were in fact picking on (harassing) these kids....

Crushing the cars was way too extreme... but they modified those cars and knew the ramifications of their actions.

In the article cops crushed cars they thought had stolen parts; even if the owner had receipts.

Yes, it sucks. Yes, I think the police waaay overstepped their bounds. But this talk of Nazi and gestapo... sounds a little premature to me.

AGREED! I think the Nazi metaphors get thrown around way too loosely....But if this is 'let pass', who will be there to stop the next test of the boundaries?

 

"If you're not into street racing, why would you need that?" Riverside Police Traffic Sergeant Skip Showalter asked an enthusiast during a similar crackdown last year. "Why would you want more power going to your car?"

With this paragraph in that story, I can't believe that anyone here would agree... As long as it's THEM they are harrassing, it's OK?

Would it be OK if the police did this at a cruise night? Would you want them impounding your car? They aren't going to call in special trucks to make sure your "improper equipment" isn't damaged when they do.

Would they find violations at a Billetproof?<SCRIPT src="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>

BTW, there is no mention of whether they were or were not trespassing in the story.

Oh and one more thing... Keep all your receipts... you may need them for the lawsuit when your hot rod gets crushed.

 

Sharpe427,

It's obvious you've done some research into the subject. I have never been pulled over and had my car searched, so I had to take her word for it.

However, I do wonder what the "man" would say if I said "no" to a search. I don't do anything illegal (ie, drugs, etc.) to have on me, but a refusal to search anymore is, in the eyes of the law, an admission that you may have something there you don't want them to see, and I see it snowballing.

I too am not a fan of micro managing governments, but that's what it's come down to. Our rights have been trampled on since before 1861, and only worse since 1865.

Remember, again, as I stated above. WE put ourselves into this mess by electing these people. Wonder why there's so many laws that seem to be against us? How many of us vote, EVERY time there is one? All those soccer moms and "liberals" that everyone decries goes out and speaks their mind, on a ballot, and they get the laws that they want enacted.

Jay

 

There was a news report on TV about one of these raids and the cars that got crushed had not-stock to the car engines and transmissions with the serial numbers chiseled off the blocks.
As in assumed stolen.
What gets me is, if they are stolen parts they should be returned to whoever they were stolen FROM, not DESTROYED!
That's just for a bunch of fucking media hype, like public executions.
The Government/GANG wants everyone to just be good little couch potatoes and sit at home watching TV to the extent that they are giving rebates to buy the HDTV boxes.

People have always raced.
They ran against each other, then they raced chariots, they raced bicycles, they raced cars as soon as there were two of them built to line up on a street.
It ain't going to stop so the fucking Government/GANG should make as many race tracks as they do fucking "Municipal" Golf courses!

 

On the search thing, I got pulled over in my OT camaro once. The cop wanted to search my car for smog violations. I told him to fuck off.

He searched it anyway. Luckily, he was an ignorant fuckwad and didn't know shit. He was too busy looking for Nitrous that he didn't notice my headers or anything else.

He "let me off" w/ a 99 in a 75. Dickhead.

You have NO rights in california when driving your car. They will search first and find probable cause later. That was the last time I drove that car... I got sick of being johnny law's bitch.

 

As much as I agree with Muttley's response to this, I have to say that they have the right to say the things they have been saying. It is in bad taste, it is bullshit, but it is covered by the first amendment. People that believe different than I have the right to expouse their beliefs wether I agree with them or find them offensive.

Fully automatic weapons are covered by the second amendment, it is that laws have been passed that contradict the second amendment and haven't been challenged by anyone with the money and resources to see it through.

So you're saying "guilty until proven innocent", I think you have that backwards.

Yep, and it doesn't make it right.

Bullshit, you need some history lessons. What about the raids on innocent people because SWAT got the wrong address? Then they don't knock and bust right in. The innocent civilian defends themselves and shoots at the intruder... it's happened more than once in the last 6 months... The police need to be help to a higher standard. It has nothing to do with any sort of disrespect to those that legit were doing their job. It has to do with their above the law attitude these days. FUCK THE THIN BLUE LINE. It's bullshit...

yep...

Your teacher was wrong, way wrong...

Thank you...

Thank you, though I fail to see what is wrong with the ACLU. They are there to protect our civil liberties wether we agree with them or not...

I'm not holding my breath, I've seen some of the shitty legislation they are trying to pass.... And look what they did in New Orleans, went door to door with a list of gun registrations and took legal guns from innocent people...

They need to catch them in the commission of a crime, they can't merely "know" they were going to break the law. There are the same sort of gatherings here, I've been to them both for cars and bikes. The cops hassle the ricer and sport bike kids way more for less than the Harley crowd which does far worse... it's bullshit plain and simple.

 

No. I'm saying that these people were gathering in an area that were frequented by street racers with cars that are often used for street racing. That therefor gives the police the right to question them about what they're doing.

It's like hanging out in a crack house. Why are you in a crack house, if you're not using drugs?

I'm really surprised by how many people are defending the "tuners." Their cars were ILLEGAL, you know, as in against the law.

 

Actually no it doesn't. It does not give them the right. It is not the same as being in a crack house, though they would need a warrant to go in there anyway. And being in a parking lot with a bunch of cars that are modded does not make you a criminal. Seems to me most of the tickets were for window tint and no front plates, yeah that's real dangerous and worth the cost in overtime.... Though I guess you and your '91 Ranger have nothing to worry about.... And just for the record there are a good number of well built "tuner" cars that are done with CARB approved parts in CA. And these guys do it for the same reasons some of us mod our old cars. That doesn't give the cops the right to harass anyone.

 

Tinted windows are actually a big problem. Many gang members use them to hide their illegal activities going on in their vehicle. Think about it. Someone with pitch black windows could be in there loading a gun, getting it cocked and ready, and pointing at you while you're standing on the curb. They roll down the window, and since they've already lined you in their sites, all they've got to do is fire. But if they did not have tinted windows, you'd easily be able to see what they're doing and react.

Also, if someone were to call the police and say that drug dealing was going on in a house, the police can go in there and investigate. You've apparently never heard of probable cause?

Also, thanks for mentioning my Ranger. I guess when your argument doesn't hold water you've got to start picking on any sort of inconsequntial information you can get your hands on. What's next, are you going to start critiquing my spelling and grammar?

 

There have been several very bad accidents street raceing.
people are tired of thier family members getting killed.
The racers can kill themselves, idont care but they are killing
people not involved with raceing.You dont expect people to
want the police to stop it.

 

Yes tinted windows are a problem, here as well as there, but to make a big deal out of how much money they spent then to get a handful of tint and front plate tickets doesn't justify it. It's strong arm bullshit tactics. Seems to me maybe they should be after those gang members you are so worried about. I think had they found any guns it would have made the story, they didn't so it's pretty easy to think they weren't there, Probably off doing real crimes instead of parking in a lot talking about cars.

Yeah I heard of probable cause, it's what gets them the search warrant that they still need to enter the house. Better bone up on your law a little bit there...

Maybe if you actually drove something that catches the attention of Johnny Law I could take you seriously. A '91 Ranger just doesn't do it, kind of zaps any credibility you have, it's not inconsequential. I've been harassed on more than one occasion merely because of the car I was driving or the bike I was riding.

As for your grammar and spelling were messed up I'd probably tell you that you should have stayed in school. Oh yeah you did spell inconsequential wrong....

 

Just because I am paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

 

They weren't street racing in the parking lot. Are you saying any car that could potentially me equipped to race should be taken away?

The end does NOT justify the means.

I hear ya.... and a bunch of other voices as well.


"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. " Thomas Jefferson