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Camber Change on a Ductile Iron Axle

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by sliderule67, Mar 1, 2008.

  1. sliderule67
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 367

    sliderule67
    Member
    from Houston

    Anyone ever bend a ductile iron I beam dropped front axle to change camber? We may be boldly going where no man has been before, but something has to be done. I may be looking at a new forged steel axle. Comments?
     
  2. cast axles ,like superbell and magnum , should not be bent

    what is wrong with the camber?
     
  3. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    I've sold 100's of Super Bell axles and have only one Chromed Super Bell that lost it's camber on one side. SB replaced it and I've never had any more problems. I like 36-3window wouldn't try bending it.
     
  4. Any Ductile Iron I've used is SOFT stuff.Machines like Butter.

    OEM axles are typically forged,no problem bending them.
    Some after-market axles are cast iron.Wouldn't want to try bending one of them.

    What axle have you got ?
     

  5. side_valve
    Joined: Sep 22, 2002
    Posts: 834

    side_valve
    Alliance Vendor

    Magnum has bent their axles 180 degrees - without breaking
     
  6. sliderule67
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 367

    sliderule67
    Member
    from Houston

    Don't know the maker; no marks anywhere. Tops of both sides slant markedly out; don't know if that's positive or negative, and it's too late in the day to start researching it. I'm assuming it's ductile iron because that's worst case. Workmanship is good; camber is just wrong.
     
  7. enjenjo
    Joined: Mar 2, 2001
    Posts: 2,689

    enjenjo
    Member
    from swanton oh

    So bend it. Ductile iron bends ok.
     
  8. Joe Tx
    Joined: Jan 25, 2008
    Posts: 282

    Joe Tx
    Member

    Don't mean to hi-jack this thread, but I have a similar problem. What is "Ductile iron"? I have a stock '36 ford ton and half axle I installed '79 3.4 ton spindles and tires lean in on top. I talked to a big truck fleet service guy and he thought he could cold bend it to bring it back to specs. What do you think? Thanks, Joe.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Go for it.

     
  10. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Are you saying that the king pin boss angles out or that the tire actually has excessive positive camber?
    Was the axle built as a dropped axle or did somone drop it?
     
  11. autobilly
    Joined: May 23, 2007
    Posts: 3,123

    autobilly
    Member

    Sliderule67, if the wheels "lean" out to the top, it's negative. If they "lean" out to the bottom, it's possative camber. I believe that negative camber was favoured back in the day due to less rolling resistance for quick take off/acceleration.
     
  12. Negative camber was used way back
    to improve tracking on crowned dirt and gravel roads.

    When flat paved roads became common,
    negative camber was not needed.
     
  13. HUH?
    Joined: Feb 28, 2008
    Posts: 33

    HUH?
    Member

    Joe Tx,

    Ask them how they are going to bend your axle first. I put '54 Chevy spindles on a '37 Chevy pick up axle and the different king pin angle was cause to have the camber corrected. The local alignment shop chained down the axle just outside the leaf springs and bent the axle upwards in the middle with a bottle jack. I was not expecting to get an upside down banana shaped front axle.:eek:
     
  14. hillbillyhell
    Joined: Feb 9, 2005
    Posts: 934

    hillbillyhell
    Member

    You didn't put the spindles on upside down, did you?? :D

    Personally, I'd not bend a ductile axle to change camber. I'd be very curious to know the manufacturer, I've installed maybe 50 Super Bells and never run across one that was flakey. One thing to keep in mind though. The new after market ones do have a little varience in camber, I've seen anything from a degree negative to a degree positive (both of those are kinda extreme, usually that are pretty close to straight up). What looks like a lot may be a little.


    On the misinformation front:

    if the wheels "lean" out to the top, it's negative. If they "lean" out to the bottom, it's possative camber.

    This is backwards. If a wheel is leaning inboard at the top, it has negative camber. Positive camber will lean a wheel outboard at the top.


    This next one got deleted, perhaps the author realized he was in a coma when he wrote it:
    You can adjust your CAMBER with your tie rod..... I think you mean CASTER. And you can adjust your caster 2 ways: 1) Shim the spring so it leans back or forward in the front crossmember 2) Adjust you wishbones.

    I don't even know what the hell this means. Camber on an I beam axle is not adjustable, especially not with a tie rod. There will be a slight change in camber as toe changes, that is all. As far as caster goes, on a radius arm front suspension, you can shim the spring to hell and back and it will not change caster of the axle. Granted, the spring needs to sit at an angle relative to the caster of the axle, but caster can only be adjusted on a radius arm front by relocating the rear of the wishbone(s) or if you have hairpins, by adjusting the clevises.
     
  15. 1932tub
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 416

    1932tub
    Member

    Iv'e bent them, its not hard. How do you think Ford garages adjusted camber for beam axles? 8 degrees is what you need at the kingpin eye. Don't confuse castor with camber.
     
  16. hillbillyhell
    Joined: Feb 9, 2005
    Posts: 934

    hillbillyhell
    Member

    Oh, I know!! They BENT them. Do I win? Know what else? Those Ford axles you speak of are forged, NOT cast ductile.
     
  17. 1932tub
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 416

    1932tub
    Member

    Ductile bends, what do you think the word ductile means
     
  18. CRH
    Joined: Apr 30, 2006
    Posts: 554

    CRH
    Member
    from Utah

    Thanks for the info. I was a little confused by the stuff you quoted, and thought maybe I had lost it. No disrespect to the other posts but thanks for the corrections!
     
  19. Zettle Bros.
    Joined: Oct 17, 2004
    Posts: 1,358

    Zettle Bros.
    Member

    Good Topic, I need to bend the axle on the Falcon. It has a hell of a negitive camber to it. It has a Speedway '48 Chevy tube axle. Friend of mine owns a trucking company and has tweeked the big rig front ends for years.
     
  20. hillbillyhell
    Joined: Feb 9, 2005
    Posts: 934

    hillbillyhell
    Member

    I'm pretty familiar with what the word ductile means. I'm also pretty familiar with the properties of ductile, or nodular, cast iron. "Ductile" or not, it ain't a great idea to bend it. Prett much all ductile iron is, is an alloy where the graphite is in spheres rather than flakes. It makes it less brittle, or "tougher". It still isn't malleble like a forged part.

    In fact, a direct quote from Pete and Jakes catalog: "Do not heat or try to bend any item that is cast material".

    Sorry, I'm not trying to pick on anybody, I'm just really tired of all the bad info and antecdotes around here lately.
     
  21. 1932tub
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 416

    1932tub
    Member

    Cambridge dictionary.

    Ductile : able to be bent!
     
  22. 1932tub
    Joined: May 31, 2005
    Posts: 416

    1932tub
    Member

    Cambridge dictionary:

    DUCTILE : able to be bent
     
  23. hillbillyhell
    Joined: Feb 9, 2005
    Posts: 934

    hillbillyhell
    Member

    Dude, I'm not gonna argue with ya...like I said in my previous post, I know the definition of the word ductile, and I know I wouldn't bend a ductile axle. I say that because the manufacturer told me it was a bad friggin idea, not from a cover his ass standpoint, just two good friends talking. I also won't do it because there's really not much point in taking chances with the shit that holds the wheels on. So whatever, run along and have your misinformation fiesta. Fuckin people that know everything are killin me.
     
  24. still a good thread, lets keep it going in the right positive direction.
    thansk for all the info guys, I too have one thats a smidgen tweaked, but mines a stocker 36 chebby axle
     
  25. sliderule67
    Joined: Nov 4, 2005
    Posts: 367

    sliderule67
    Member
    from Houston

    Sorry I stirred up an issue. We took it to a good alignment shop, and they adjusted the toe. Said the caster and camber were right on. I had a couple of issues; one was the way the wheels visibly lean out; apparently that's how it's supposed to be, so there are a lot of cars running around that aren't right. Second thing was the wheel didn't want to self return after a corner. That was the toe, and it drives like a dream, now. There are lots of grades of ductile iron, and some list double digit area reduction before breaking in tensile. Still makes me itchy; glad it didn't need to be done. Best to all...lots of good people on this site.
     
  26. Dirty Dug
    Joined: Jan 11, 2003
    Posts: 3,712

    Dirty Dug
    Member

    I'd strongly suggest you mount spindles to it before you light up your torch. I suspect your axle isn't bent but you're not taking into account the angle if the king pin through th axle and spindle.
     

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