Register now to get rid of these ads!

Ultralight cars...how low can you go?...

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by slopchop, Feb 29, 2008.

  1. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

    I used to have my Mallock on the street before I brought it to the States.
    With a pass seat, Webers, Dry Sump, Headlights, Turnsignals, Altinator, Fenders, Steel Wheels with Street Radials, a full tank of gas, and lots of Mufflers to pass the noice rules it was a bit under 450Kg, ( about 950 Lb )
    220Lb of that is the 4 Cyl Ford Kent Engine ( Stock, without the Webers or the Dry Sump )

    I'm guessing its about 100Lb lighter now, because I took all the Street equipment off again.

    Right now it should have about 130 Hp, but it feels down on Power.
    Long term plans are to put a Formula2 Spec Lotus Twincam in it.
    ( One of my old Racing Buddies is collecting parts for it, and one of the Twin Cams he built gave 182 Hp out of 1600cc )
     

    Attached Files:

  2. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

    This one was about 650Lb.

    The engine was basicly the same as the one Oktr is using ( a Abarth version of the Fiat 600/850 )

    Based on a Aluminum Lola Tub, with my own own Rear Suspension and Rear Frame...
     

    Attached Files:

  3. I Drag
    Joined: Apr 11, 2007
    Posts: 883

    I Drag
    Member

    Are you guys really going to drive around in something that's as crash worthy as sitting on a lawn chair and covering your legs with aluminum foil?

    Yeah I always spoil the fun.
     
  4. 1950ChevySuburban
    Joined: Dec 20, 2006
    Posts: 6,187

    1950ChevySuburban
    Member Emeritus
    from Tucson AZ

    Alex, what'd you use for headlights on the Mallock? Any pics of it with them on?
    You seem to have lots of cool stuff hiding over there!
     
  5. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

    I'll scan some pics...:)
     
  6. Flipper
    Joined: May 10, 2003
    Posts: 3,395

    Flipper
    Member
    from Kentucky

    That can be said for pretty much any of the hot rods based on 20-30's cars.
     
  7. T-Time
    Joined: Jan 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,627

    T-Time
    Member
    from USA

    The '27 body is much heavier than the 1921/22 body. But, I don't think that explains all of the difference. It is not 500 lbs. heavier. What V8 and what tranny?
     
  8. duke182
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 562

    duke182
    Member

    whats the difference in thaat and model t's& a's with big motors?
    at least their cars have rollbars and belts
     
  9. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

    The next version was going to be a lot lighter...:D
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Flipper
    Joined: May 10, 2003
    Posts: 3,395

    Flipper
    Member
    from Kentucky

    Volkswagon powered?
     
  11. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,484

    tjm73
    Member

    I've seen pics of your little car before. Still love it!
     
  12. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

    " Volkswagen powered? "

    No, there was a Citroen Engine of about 1250cc.
    Also a Aircooled Flat4, but it would rev a lot higher without any Aftermarket Parts.
    ( stock Crank, Rods, etc )
    There was a guy in England that sold Cams for them, and I was going to put Webers on it.
    You could get these for next to nothing at the time in JunkYards.
    What I really wanted was a All Aluminum Buick 215/Rover 3500, but I couldn't come up with the $800 or so they went for at the time.
    ( I already found a Porsche 911 Tranaxle in parts for about $100 )

    The Webers I had for the Citroen are now on one of Racefab's Raffle Engines...:D
     
  13. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,138

    metalshapes
    Member

  14. Hackerbilt
    Joined: Aug 13, 2001
    Posts: 6,254

    Hackerbilt
    Member

    Yeah...nothing like the peace of mind knowing that your cocooned in a flimsy1/4" thick fiberglass "bucket", with the only piece of structural steel anywhere near you being the 1/8"-2x3 tube thats in line with, and directly below your ass crack! Hahaha

    Well, at least you know you won't be falling out thru the bottom...:p
     
  15. DrJ
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 9,419

    DrJ
    Member

    I think other than lightweight "birdcage" frames and light engine selections, the tire and wheel weights (and brakes) are critical items.
    So, what makes, designs and sizes of DOT street legal wheels and tires fit the lightweight requirements?
     
  16. fuelXinjected
    Joined: Oct 7, 2006
    Posts: 11

    fuelXinjected
    Member
    from Ohio

     
  17. GaryC.
    Joined: Mar 24, 2007
    Posts: 1,557

    GaryC.

    If found this today while viewing the

    Mechanix Illustrated Cover Archive.

    It might be a candidate for a 'write the caption contest'.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,484

    tjm73
    Member


    That's actually kinda cool! Any more info?
     
  19. Rusty Karz
    Joined: Feb 11, 2005
    Posts: 299

    Rusty Karz
    Member

    Try googleing "H modifed sports cars" These little roadsters were raced in the 50s and 60s. Weighed less than 1000 lbs and must have been a blast to drive. The Italian versions were pretty little things too. Look under "Bandini" for instance.
     
    Michbandini likes this.
  20. oktr6r
    Joined: Feb 14, 2006
    Posts: 724

    oktr6r
    Member
    from Tulsa

    Ever ride a motorcycle? I have for 20+ years. During that time, I've determined that every other driver on the road is an idiot that's out to kill me, it's up to me to avoid them. It's a habit that has served me very well on 2, 3, 4, and 6 wheels. I drive my '94 Ford E350 bus with that same thought in mind.

    Hell yeah, I'll drive it. [​IMG]
     
  21. nexxussian
    Joined: Mar 14, 2007
    Posts: 3,240

    nexxussian
    Member

    Not to nit pick, but the car you describe is called a Dwarf car. I know the Legends people tried a Harley, but they have ben Spec Yamaha 1200 since about 1992.

    Only bring that up as people that are looking for info on ways to hook other MC engines to an automotive drive train won't have any luck buying it from 600 Racing (the Legends Cars factory).
     
  22. dirty old man
    Joined: Feb 2, 2008
    Posts: 8,910

    dirty old man
    Member Emeritus

    I've always wished that the magazines would show a weight on their featured cars! It would at least give you some idea of what to expect.
    Only cars I ever weighed after building were '62-'64 Chevy IIs for dirt ovals. I ran 55 Chev.frames, shortened and narrowed at the rear. Iron SBC, iron Chev 3 speed, and Frankland QC rear end, aluminum center section and iron side bells. The first one had steel wheels, the 2nd had 2 piece racing Almags. The first car, IIRC, weighed 2610, and the 2nd weighed 2305. Dirt oval racing was very much a contact sport back then, and the bumpers, etc. were built for that. Built for more civilized use, I figure at least a couple hundred less, and lose even more with some aluminum heads and other drivelione parts.
    The Brookville '31 Hiboy roadster I'm building now I hope for 2000#. Using aluminum heads and intake, but that '72 Mustang Tremec 4 speed is a heavy Mother, as is the 9" rear end.
    Dave
     
  23. five-duece-chevy
    Joined: Jan 2, 2006
    Posts: 213

    five-duece-chevy
    Member
    from PA

    I would consider the Chevy Ecotec engine as a powerplant choice. Their all aluminum, make plenty of power and you can get a RWD trans to bolt up out of a Solstice or Sky. The 2.0 supercharged makes over 200 hp, which would put a lightweight car like that into the 11's pretty easy. And I have buddies that farted around with Cavaliers (gulp) that put down well over 200 horses at the wheels on a chassis dyno with a stock ecotec with an add on turbo kit only pushing 8-10 psi.
     
  24. PAUCHO
    Joined: Nov 19, 2006
    Posts: 721

    PAUCHO
    Member

    Here's one I built about 15 years ago....It's a Speedway track roadster, with a Capri V6, 4spd, 4 wheel disc brakes....It was really light weight, and the thing FLEW !...you could throw it around like a go-cart...it felt pretty much like you could go road racing with it if it had the right tires....[​IMG]...the sad part about this car for me was it was fiberglass, and I couldn't get over the fact it wasn't a real 27 Ford.....also....it was my first attempt at painting flames....sorry about that....
     
  25. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,484

    tjm73
    Member

    Like this???

    [​IMG]
     
    Michbandini likes this.
  26. Mooosman
    Joined: Sep 3, 2006
    Posts: 115

    Mooosman
    Member

    I would look into using a motorcycle drivetrain. Engine and trans built together, low weight, and high HP per Liter.

    I have seen a picture where someone mounted a 4cyl Honda motorcycle engine lengthwise in a T-bucket. He removed the sprocket on the trans, and found a PTO flange with the same spline count. Then he had a custom driveshaft made (an expandable driveshaft like the front shaft on a 4wd truck), and linked it all to a Toyota truck rear end.

    You'd have maybe 400 pounds in the entire drivetrain, including the rear end and radiator.

    Nick,
    Gets expensive thoughts fromt the HAMB...:eek:
     
  27. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,026

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    I just found this cool thread.

    One thing nobody mentioned is the Austin Seven format. They weighed about 800lbs stock. Seven specials are still occasionally built in Britain.

    I've often thought of a Seven replica with a bike engine, set up the Legends/Megabusa way. One way to do reverse is taking everything except top and reverse out of a longitudinal transaxle like a VW Beetle - Audi, Renault, Fiat, or 2WD Subaru are other possibilities. I believe there's a company that offers ones using cut-down VW boxes for bike-powered sandrails. One could also leave 3rd in (or 4th in the case of a 5-speed) for an overdrive range. It pretty much limits you to IRS or a DeDion, though.

    I don't want to nit-pick but I need to correct that common misconception. Morgans have ash-framed bodies but their chassis are steel, with Z-profile rails. The wooden floorboards rest on the inward-pointing lower flanges. It wasn't all that unconventional when the 4-wheelers appeared in 1936. Franklin, the American manufacturer of air-cooled quality cars, used wooden frames up to about 1928, but their products weren't exactly light.

    I've looked at wooden chassis frames. On the face of it there seems to be an advantage, in that wood is much more rigid for its weight than steel. That is, a steel frame just strong enough would be too slender to work, so a steel frame that is rigid enough must be much stronger, and therefore heavier, than it needs to be. Wood is much better in that regard; it's a material I particularly like designing for, but for automotive use it has practical constraints as soon as one starts thinking of mounting brackets, or form elaborations like Z's or sweeps or kick-ups, etc. Then you start introducing so much metal that you might as well make the whole frame out of metal.
     
  28. Phil1934
    Joined: Jun 24, 2001
    Posts: 2,716

    Phil1934
    Member

    Here's an OT car with Duratec at 1400#. http://www.zolfeusa.com/home/ Eliminate the stiff cage, add a frame suitable for no more than 200HP, say 1-1/2 x 3 x .120, a 1-1/2" x .188 front axle and small Wilwood brakes from http://www.chuppshotrods.com/html/pricing.html and their quarter elliptic rear as it allows you to cut off frame further forward, a lightweight T9 5 speed connected to an Alfa Romeo aluminum banjo style rear by an aluminum driveshaft in a carbon fiber T bucket (from Spitzer or Class Glass) and I'd say 1000# is possible if tires are kept narrow and 2 ply polyester and attention is paid to things like Dynabatt (get it from the maker, Hawker, for half price http://www.stealth316.com/2-dynabatt.htm ) or Braille battery, aluminum steering wheel, pedals and MC. I'd also say swap steel leafs with fiberglass ones from http://www.flex-a-form.com/products.asp Run E85 and you could probably substitute a small cooler for full size radiator, shell and coolant quantity. It would be fun to list weights and savings of each part.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 18, 2009
  29. mustangsix
    Joined: Mar 7, 2005
    Posts: 1,403

    mustangsix
    Member

    My Locost is 1189 lbs with full fuel and no driver.

    Approx 200 hp. Scary quick.
     

    Attached Files:

    A Boner likes this.
  30. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    There are books out on Austin 7 based specials...interesting and seriously light cars!
     

Share This Page

Register now to get rid of these ads!

Archive

Copyright © 1995-2021 The Jalopy Journal: Steal our stuff, we'll kick your teeth in. Terms of Service. Privacy Policy.

Atomic Industry
Forum software by XenForo™ ©2010-2014 XenForo Ltd.