How to make a 61 Starliner less of a gas guzzler....

I'm in the planning stages of a '61 Starliner buildup and trying to figure out the most fuel efficient way to power this beast. When I first picked this car up 9 years ago, this wasn't even a consideration, but now that gas looks like it's headed towards $4 a gallon, things are a little different.

Realistically, what's the best I could see out of an FE? With the right rear end ratio, a Gear Vendors overdrive, and some kind of fuel injection set up, could I come anywhere close to 20 mpg or more? The best I can get right now with my 2bbl 390 '67 Galaxie is around 12 mpg. I'd like to keep the 61's engine bay semi-stock/traditional looking, so if I can stay with a 390 (I hear a 352 isn't much better in terms of gas guzzling), I'd like to.

What about a 223 six cylinder? I realize it would be a dog, but what kind of numbers would I be looking at?

Small Block Ford Crate Motor?

Would it be utter blasphemy to swap in a 4.6 mod v8 drivetrain out of a late model Crown Vic into this car? Would this ultimately lead me down the path of airbags, 18 inch wheels and a tweed interior?

 

IMHO...no. That what hotrodding is about, take the later model powerplants (of whatever era) and transplant it into the old stuff.

Besides, if ya keep the hood down, who's gonna know ?

 

Too bad that little 281ci motor is going to be straining to get the car to move, it's going to kill your mileage. Your mileage will improve with lower RPM and lighter load on the engine. Appropriately sized engines turning low RPM get great gas mileage.

Best bet... Make sure the 390 is tight, maybe adapt an OD trans to it, put in a 2.56ish gear in the rear, and put a big fat Quadrajet on it - seriously! Those tiny primaries give it good throttle response, smooth idle, and really great gas mileage for a 4bbl.

Just because it's slow doesn't mean it gets good mileage.. a new Vette gets better mileage than a new Ranger.

 

My vote is for an OD trans, find a ratio that keeps the engine at around 16-1800 rpm at cruise and fuel injection. There is no way a carby can match FI's metering and driveability. Try for a sequential setup from a similar sized or revvy engine. Theory (mine) is that a revvy engine takes more fuel so the injectors can handle fuel requirements for a somewhat larger engine. Or find uprated injectors.
I'd be looking for a Cadillac Seville/Eldo from '79-'80 with the 368, as I think that one is sequential. You'll need find one with a dizzy, or you'll need to adapt a crank trigger, though this won't be as hard as you think, a plug welded onto balancer or flywheel (then re-balanced), would do it. Citroën used a shorter tooth (just one) on the flywheel to trigger, might be able to do that and make it work.

Thing is, you will need the torque to get that car moving, as it is kinda porky.

Cosmo

 

The 223 in my '60, with the stock 1bbl carb, gave me pretty bad mileage. No power to speak of, either. Maybe you'd be better off with a 221 Windsor V8.

 

I had a 223 with a non O/D three speed in my 63 Galaxie. It had 3.23 rear gears, and got 17ish in town, 20/21 on the highway. Didn't make much power, but would cruise at 70 all day long....once you got up that fast

 

302 / AOD - pre 86 engine

L

 

Had a chance to talk w/a Goodyear tire engineer at one of the Solar car races thru New England. The HAMB guys are talking of FI systems and a torque motor spinning efficiently at a low cruising RPM, all good. I'd try to run synthetic oil and pickup another 1-3%. Larger pulleys on Alt. & driven accessories, etc. Then look into a narrow width of tire and wheel, running the high pressure end, on low rolling resistance tires. Sometimes smoothing things out beneath the chassis can help, effectively mimicking a belly pan. Some remove door handles, you can play around w/eliminating drag, windshield wipers and anything grabbing air or creating turbulence. Chassis height and "stance" or rake matter here too. Keep a log of changes and let us know what helps.

 

i guess ill be the first to say go with a 5 spd or 6 spd pick a rear gear to get your appropriate cruise rpm in od, this will give you plenty of gear to get out of the hole. i like the idea of efi in an old car, reliability and cruisability of a new car, in an old car. ive never tried and efi swap and ill admit im a little intimidated by all the wiring involved.

 

Park it.

Couldn't help myself. Always one smart-ass in the group.

 

No, I agree with you,this aint no fucking Al Gore tree hugger site,it's a Hot Rod site. $4 a gallon !! FFS ,I have a mate in Turkey where they a pay $4 a LITER!!!!! and fucking iraq is right next door . We pay $1.40 A LITER which is almost $5 a gallon.
If can't afford to drive your Ford , buy a bicycle and forget about owning a car.

 

dont laugh but a ford v6 from mustang will have decent power and good fuel economy, but then a 4.6 with o/d trand from a crown vic gets very good on the hwy and plenty of power. sometimes the old motors are fun to have but need to realize that they waste gas even in 6cyl form. i have a dart with a slant six it gets lousey mpg , about the same as my chevy 4wd with 5.3, newer motors with f/i just do it better, power and mpg. it comes down to time and money, and will it really be worth it to change over.

 

I have a full size 60 ford wagon 429/365hp c6 with 3.00 rear gears gets about 18 mpg the difference between $3 and $4 for gas is about $250 year more not a big deal. drive your econobox all week to save money and take the hotrod out and have fun, or eat one less pizza a month

 

The 4.6/AOD isn't a bad idea and they can be had pretty cheap out of a Crown Vic. Even turning a few revs, say with 3.25 gears, or so, they'll get good mileage. The Crown Vic is no light car, itself.

Also, this isn't the first time I've heard of someone running a Q-Jet. DrDano is running one on his Galaxie wagon ('62?) and, from what I recall, claims 20mpg or better on the road. I don't remember what trans. and rear gears he has, but I don't think he has OD.

Another good option, IMO. They are regularly known to get 20mpg or better on the road.

Also, how much money are you looking to spend? You can still buy alot of fuel for how much you might sink into an EFI setup on the FE.

Malcolm

 

I used to get 18 MPG highway out of a '60 Pontiac with a 2-bbl 389 and 4-speed hydro, 3.08 rear, average driving. Get a 3.00 or so gear in it and 4 or 5 speed trans with OD and you aught to be able to pull around 20 out of a '61 Ford, too. Chrysler managed it in '61 with a 361-2bbl and the three-speed auto trans, they won the Mobil economy run that year.

 

My 428 4V Tbird that weighs at least 4400lbs. and gets 12mpg on the highway. Bigger motor, more carb...sounds like a tune up on your smaller 390 2V is in order.

I think you'll spend 10 times as much money converting to some other drivetrain than you'll spend in the extra gas for the year so why bother!?

Keep the drivetrain you have, keep it in good tune, keep the tires properly inflated, keep your foot out of the gas pedal and don't try to make your Galaxie something it's never going to be.

 

My 51 Caddy probably weighs 4 large, and I'm running a 454 BBC / 400TH combo, mostly stock with an aluminum intake and an Edelbrock 700 cfm carb, and the original 3.73 (best I can figure) I got 13-14 MPG last year, city or hiway. I just swapped in a 700R4 and tweaked a few things, if I get 16-17 MPG this year I'll be tickled pink.

FWIW, the price of gas will NOT effect my cruising this year, I'll cut back elsewhere if need be - I get too much joy out of the car.

 

you'd probably drop more $$ trying to make an engine be more fuel efficient than you'd spend on gas if you leave it alone. in the long run, you'll either spend $$ on an engine, or on gas...so if it runs good now, why mess with it ??

 

Replace it with a prius.

 

Well, "stingbean", your first and only post started this thread. You've gotten alot of good opinions, ideas, and answers to your questions.

I think alot of it comes down to what you are starting with. Do you already have a running 390, or are you starting from scratch and wanting to select a (somewhat?) fuel efficient setup? If it were me, that would play a major part in my decision. About how many miles per year do you think you'll put on your car?

If you are starting from scratch, with no engine or trans. in the car, I'd think about going with a 302/T-5 (or AOD) setup. They can be had pretty cheap and usually produce good mileage. Just another opinion....

Malcolm

 

He's right, unless you were planning an engine, trans and gear swap anyway and started out with mileage as a goal doing all that just to get mileage wouldn't pay off for many years, if then. Also keep in mind that you can gear the car TOO high and drop cruise RPM to the point where you're in the throttle all the time just to maintain speed. Tune the crap out of what you have, make sure it's aligned properly, tire pressure is up, etc. and drive it.

On the other hand back in 1995 we rented a new full size extended Ford van ( aka "a friggin' brick" ) to make a family trip out East. It had an EFI 351 and AOD, with 5 adults and luggage it was getting an honest 23 MPG running 70-75 on the Interstate. The thing had some balls too, when I kicked it in the ass at the end of one on ramp it barked the tires at about 50 MPH when it shifted back up. Being a lifelong GM man I was reluctantly impressed with both the mileage and performance. If you were to do a drivetrain swap I think you could do a lot worse than a combo like that. Not traditional BUT if MPG's are that big of a concern you may have to sacrifice.

 

I've had lots of Fords, with most engine/trans combo's, and I have to tell you that you'll never get a real-world FE to get much over 18 MPG or so. The best V8 Ford I ever had is my present driver, an '89 Grand Marquis. 302, AOD, 24 or so. A 351 in a '79 Mustang w/OD 4-speed was a close second. The 351W would have the torque to keep your '60 ahead of traffic and still make 22-24 mpg.with an OD. Of course, driving style makes a big difference! Skinny radials, slightly overinflated, and an expert wheel alignment help too. Low-drag disc brakes up front can make a detectable gain as well.

 

I have a '68 FE 390, I calculated 16mpg while driving from WA to TX. I have an Edelbrock intake (weight savings!) and a Holley 4bbl at about 500cfm., dual exhaust and a lopey cam of unknown specs (already in car). If you let the car build up speed rather than being in the green light grand prix, you should do okay.

 

12 MPG? Are the brakes dragging? No really.

If you want more fuel economy, in a heavier vehicle I would start by trying to reduce the rolling resistance as much as I could (tires, inflation, brakes aren't dragging, pack the wheel bearings W/ synthetic grease) lower it some (doesn't have to be in the weeds).

If you want to get into the drive train, an OD of some kind to get the revs down at freeway speeds is a good idea (that way first isn't too steep either).

If you want a later model engine the 351 should work, even with carb (X2 for a Q jet here).

If you HAVE to have an EFI newer engine, check out the 4.0L SOHC V6 like is in the '05 and newer Mustangs and the '01 and newer Rangers. 310 Lb ft SAE net, stock (and yes it's a pain in the ass to wire). If you go this route, buy the whole vehicle at a salvage auction, as you won't know for sure what you need till you get it running.

 

Those are excellent mileage results for an FE. Before I rebuilt my 63 Thunderbird's 390, I was getting 12mpg. I am very happy to report after a fresh rebuild, a few modifications, and a heavy foot (I love to hear those pipes!), I get around 9 mpg, city.

Sweeeet

 

How many miles do you drive a year? You'll probably spend more money doing a drivetrain swap than you would spend in gas over a year.

6000 miles/year at 20mpg at $3/gal = $900

6000 miles/year at 12mpg at $3/gal = $1500

 

Really? Why not just use a 4.6? The mileage wouldn't be that much different and you'd have a V8. I can't imagine putting a V6 into a '61 Starliner.

 

sounds right...10mpg is why i sent my 64 down the road. f'n thing was bleedin me dry. best thing you could do if ya hafta keep the 390 is ditch the crapomatic for an aod and a better carb/intake.do a search for ford transmission forum. im sure theres trans swap kits available

 

Or a 5 or 6 speed. Three pedals are fun!
These guys actually make a bellhousing to put a T56 6-speed behind the FE:
http://www.quicktimeinc.com/products.html#ford

 

im with him i have several small blocks and they all get great mileage. i havent stepped up to the fuel injection stuff yet (i just bought my first electronic distributor) or the overdrives but my 51 gets 18mpg with the air on running around town with a 4:11 gear and a fat cam. bigger cams and lots of head work will get you better gas mileage also but stay away from the FE motors. the 4.6 sounds like a good idea you can take advantage of the technology we have now on fuel efficiency,horse power, and parts are readily available.