Remember the restored race car orig. found folded in half & buried on a farm?

Heres Babs.... in 26...after the wreck, being buried, dug up in '69 & restored.....

 

Well, I'm glad this old thread got "dug up" as I never saw it before and it's pretty interesting.

It also makes me feel a little better about driving 500 miles last weekend to spend all day Saturday digging old nineteen-teens car parts out of the ground (now, if I could just figure out hell I've got. Gonna post some photos here hoping the collective can figure out what they are).

My favorite fake Alfa is the "Appenine", a total recreation in which two 1750 blocks were welded together to make a straight 8. I think the owner called it a kit car even though everything on it was handmade in metal.

 

Hi,
"Nice intro."
What, exactly, were the "host of other cars" you saw in 1984?
What's the car you have that is "the very first true concept/futuristic car ever built"?

Regarding the buried car part of the story, as far as the TR is concerned that's definitely something that people out there believe...that there are witnesses that support the theory that a road now exists over the spot where some of the cars were. I have no idea...never been there...but it is one of the stories out there.

Glad you stopped by to enlighten us about flagpole records. How about some information about cars?

Cris

 

Google John Yasenko +cars and you'll get two interesting hits...

 

Interesting how?

 

I think the eastern front has asked a question. First for the dum guys in PA. who's Harris? then how about his car?

 

Mainly because "Mercedes -Benz " ,A product of Daimler-Benz ,only came into being in 1926....

 

Not so interesting apart from the fact he only went to Hannibal in 1999 not 1964.

http://www.hannibal.net/stories/082600/hap_0826000065.html

and this...
[FONT=verdana, sans-serif] <mcc head=""> Power line knocked down </mcc> [/FONT] [FONT=verdana, sans-serif] <mcc byline1=""> </mcc> [/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, sans-serif]<mcc byline2=""> </mcc>[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, sans-serif] <mcc story=""> A utility pole holding power lines was knocked down by a car at 4:39 p.m. Wednesday, Nov. 3.</mcc> The Hannibal Police Department reported John Yasenko, 17, of 204 Earl St., was driving a 1988 Toyota Camry on Virginia Street near Virginia Extension when the accident occurred.
Officers said Yasenko was driving down Virginia and said he hit his brakes, then the car slid and left the road, hitting a utility pole.
Yasenko and his two passengers were not injured.
[/FONT]

 

I'm confused, was Virginia on the flag pole?

 

Proof that drugs are too cheap!!

 

I dont see what the last couple of posts have to to with the Old Found & Restored Racecar.

So lets keep this Thread focused on the Cars, please...

The other Info doesnt have much value, IMO.

 

my friends and i are restoring two cars we found in the woods at a public shotting area, here are some pics of what they looked like when we found them.. and yes that is my buddy shooting at it with a .30-30, the lincoln is also a car that we found in the woods on a farm, had a family of racoons in it when i found it.

 

Izzat a pic of putting a round into him for being stupid???

 

Well;
I guess I was right that the story would stand some hair on end.

Guess I did spell a word wrong, nobodys perfect are they?
Thanks you to the few guys that acted and wrote intelligently!

I refer to boys in a positive manner, always have, no disrespect meant, will change it to guys that seem to be offended.

Did not drop in from outer space, been a car guy for over 40 years guys.
Fact of the matter, everything I wrote is true !
More facts;
Biggs home and spread had not even been sold to Major Michael T. Lilley when 6 of us viewed the estate and cars.

The cars had been pushed down a hill side with the remnants of the old barn/museum.
All were in plain sight, some did have dirt that had eroded over parts as time went on.

No road had been built over this area.
One Ferrari frame was taken to st louis, it remained there for a number of years, do not know if the story of the frame being buried is true, but a court deposition exisits that substantiates this story as the frame being buried under I-70 or another major road.
Yes, there were two Ferrari's there guys.
A 540 K was also on the site, plus more.

A Gullwing Mercedes was pushed out of the barn/museum as well as a brand new Mustang Hi Po car before things got out of control.

A Horch Cabriolet is still on the premises.

Yeah, you can access my name on google, you can also find me in the Shelby American World Registry about 30 times or more, you can also ask Alex Trebec if he ever did business with me, you can ask Bill Neal, Carroll Shelby's life long friend, if he bought his Shelby from me and if he had an Original Painting from the NY Museum sent to me, might ask Sean Penn or MGM studios if I purchased the car Madonna gave him, want more? I'm most definetly from outer space>>>>>>>>>

You can also research further and see the message to Doc Hemp and the Pebble Beach Invitational about the Harris Speedster as well as most Vintage race organizations, I'm most definetly from outer space>>>>>

You can preview the 2008 Barrett-Jackson Auction for a gorgeous 1957 Supercharged (F) Bird being auctioned thats sitting in my shop at this time.

Now to get serious guys, no disrespect, just feel as though I was attacked for no reason, I was taught differently, just kind of disappointed with a few of the writtings.

With that said;
Please describe to me what a concept car is;
Please describe to me what a futuristic car is;
Please describe to me what a custom car is;

The Harris car someone brought up.
It is alive and well and it retains at least 90 &#37; of its original panels, frame, axles, cowl, hood, hideaway headlights etc.

If you have heard of Gordon Buehrig, him and Mr Harris were the best of friends their entire lives, where did the first concealed pop up headlights come from?

Check with the Spicer-Dana Corporation to see what steet car their very first FWD half shaft was made for.

Check with the DuPont archives and find out what street car got the first ever "chrome metalic" paint the Company made.

Check what street car had the very first V-8, twin cam, dual distributor, dual carb engine.

Check and see what street car was placed on a pedestal at the Chicago International Auto show in 1936.

Check to see if the car was on the front cover of the NY International Auto Show,

Check and see what car won a first place over the Kustom King of California at the 2nd annual show in Indianapolis when it was 16 years old.

Check to see how many magazines this car has been in, might even check Hemmings Special Interest Magazine.

Check and see if its body configeration/style/concept was not then put to use on Ferrari, D-type Jags etc a few years later.

Check to see if the first 18 inches of the f. nose of the Harris car looks like a 2008, 350Z.

Did Harris know, Harley Earl, whacky Arnolt Bristol, Tucker, Roosevelt, and a host of others.

Did it take almost 7 years after Mr harris died for his burial, who exactly was Harris.

Spam. hardly think so, a very interesting book, yes, in the future, don't worry, a proffessional writer will do it and I will probably ask a friend that owns a publishing company to publish it.
Promise, no spelling error's>>>

Want to hear more about the Biggs cars, the Harris Car, the Brero car, a one off Dodge Hemi that was not even in factory records, one of the 57 T-Bird Warrior cars, a lost R- Model Shelby, ????

Thank's to the guys that did not jump to conclusions.
All the best to all of the car guys out there>>>
JOHN

 

I can not believe that somebody would post an accident that my son was in.

He is alive and well and is a Junior in college at WIU in Macomb Illinois.
Probably much more ethical and proffessional than you, whoever you are.
JOHN

 

John...interesting stuff!

No disrespect intended but you come across like your challenging people or something. I think thats why your getting the kind of response you dislike.

Like you said...stories can get twisted...so its possible the guys here you disagree with are just repeating what they were told as fact and nothing more.

I'm sure there are loads of people here interested in your input so please tell us more about the cars!
Few of us here are any kind of experts on the cars your talking about, but most are very interested in learning and hearing your stories...thats gotta be worth something!!!

Thanks!

 

Hackerbill, I couldn't have said it better. John, don't give us inuendos. Just the facts, we are listening.

 

I stand corrected, did not really think that my posted forum thread read that way.
After standing back and re-reading, guess I deserved what I got.

Cris, I do not consider myself an expert, just have been playing cars in many ways for quite a few years.
I have been fortunate enough to have done business with many prominent persons as with the regular guy, like I'am.
I believe that a person "learns" everyday of their life>>> and sometimes has to "learn" how to die with respect and dignity.

Experts, never have met a true expert yet, maybe I will when I meet our maker.

With all that said;
I'm truly looking for a definitive description of;

What is a concept car,
What is a Futuristic car,
What is a custom car,

I have talked with experts and Historian's, funny enough, these questions seem to stump them and no real definitive answer has came forth, soooooooooo, what do you guys think, would really like to hear????

Cris, I enjoyed your post re; authentic, original, ressurection etc, any thoughts???

Thanks to; Hackerbill, Cris, NoboD, metalshapes, fiat 128, Bluto and Codeman for not tearing me apart, even though I needed some reprimand.

P.S., The Brero car was in California, Lou's son thought everybody was tapping his phone and watching him, wanted to do the deal on the car at sea in International waters or in another country, it was pretty big money. There are circumstances of why he acted this way, quite sad actually, to my best knowledge, he watched his Father perish in a on track crash, correct me if the information I was told about this incident is wrong.
I was told that Lou was a pretty good Ferrari race car driver.

All the best today Guys,
JOHN

 

Hi John,
Lou Brero Sr. died in an ugly accident at a race in Hawaii in 1957, I believe. He was driving a borrowed Chevy-engined Maserati. Brero was a fairly accomplished racer in his time, in many makes of cars. At the time he died his regular car was a D Jag.

My thoughts on originality, categorizations, etc? I am really coming around to Bluto's friend's saying "Every puppy needs a name."

What other car remains at the Biggs farm were identifiable? The 6C? Any of the sprinters?

Cris

 

John...you're asking what a concept car, futuristic car and a custom car is like asking what is a hot rod. There is no real answer to any of it. Everybody has there own opinions.

To me a concept car is a one off car that is built for possible production.

A futuristic car could be just about anything. Airflows were futuristic.

Custom car??? Simple ...a car that was altered in looks or performance. I guess you could even say there were factory customs.

You still haven't given us "the rest of the story"
Clark

 

A very interesting post...Keep it going please...

 

Cris,
Was it a crash in which the car burned?

I agree with your qoute Cris, "every puppy needs a name".
Cris, will get back to what else was at the Biggs property, OK.
Clark, which story, any particular car?

Would like to address the topics on custom cars, concept cars and futuristic cars.

Clark, I agree with your descriptions in part.
Your opinions are shared by many, including Historians,re; your basic thoughts and writting.

The topics are muddy and the question is loaded.

I would really like to read more of the thoughts of others before we break each one down.
I truly think that each needs to be addressed, kind of a last frontier?

The thing about cars, most things are quite "clear cut and dried".

Shall we spark the imagination of many and create/break ground with some definitive answer's?

You can view an Italian made/designed Thunderbird at the Barrett-Jackson 2008 auction site, saturday auction, around car # 1300.

"What is it", concept, custom or futuristc "and why"?
Do you think if we start here that we can slowly but surely define a alleged answer to what each basicly are?

All the best today guys, shall we have some fun>>>>>>>
JOHN

 

This group constantly amazes me by the depth of knowledge
and interest here. That picture is a recreation of a 1938 Alfa 8C
2900 that was in a barn fire in the midwest , parted out, and the chassis buried at the site. As values on these cars skyrocketed, an
original today being worth over $15 million, this chassis was dug up
and 'restored', using some old Alfa mechanical bits, but mostly new
body, chassis, etc. It has been for sale, on and off, over the last couple of years for a fraction of one of the real ones. They only built
4 cars to compete in the '38 Mille Miglia, of which they took the first
3 places. They were tube framed, alloy bodied, inline, supercharged,
double overhead cammed, 8 cyls. In it's day they were the
equivalent of today's McLaren F1 road car. The car owned by Ralph
Lauren is considered to be the best, and most original of the remaining cars.

 

Alfin32,
Didn't a picture exist that displayed a 1750 Alfa in the background of a picture taken of the TiPo 2900B, Chassis # 412021 at the David Biggs Barn/Museum?

Wasn't a Herny Wessel's involved in this somehow for a gentleman from England, Rodney Felton?

Didn't a Simon Moore, believe wrote a Book on Alfa's, suggest in his book, that someone should recover the car from Biggs place?

I don't know for sure, wasn't an attorney conntacted to verify and document ownership of the car's?

As I recall, there was a Alfa Engine there and a Ferrari engine sitting up by Biggs house that I and others scraped mud off our boots on, this is amongst many other things that were there.

I'm just curious, as I desire to get the facts straight for further writting.

 

My take on those...

Concept Car.
A show car a factory can use to gauge styling ideas, and to see how the public responds to them.
Example, Lincoln Futura.

Futuristic Car.
A car thas built to specs or shapes that the then current cars arent built to yet.
Example, Phantom Corsair.

Custom Car.
Production Car, modifed for style.
Example, Hirohata Merc.

Sort of a rough way to group them, and there are lots of exeptions to the rules...

 

John,
I'm a little confused. In your original post you mentioned having trod the ground where the cars were in 1984, and that you actually helped drag one out, but now you're asking questions which are basically common knowledge about the cars? Yes, Henry Wessells was involved. Yes, the remains of the 2.9 and the alleged Testarossa were sold on to Rodney Felton, who conjured up two red automobiles from the remains.

I take it the engines you saw must not have been in the barn fire if you were able to discern that they were Ferrari and Alfa? Either that or they survived it intact and unmelted? Do you know what happened to them?

Again, sorry for the confusion, but I think due to the tone and language of your original post, we all thought you were the person that was going to shed light on this subject, but you're asking other for info so you can get the facts straight?

The 1750 is the "6C" I asked about in my last post.

Thanks.

Cris

 

The best deal i had was 20 years ago picking up a full race spec flathead which was in a rare 1935 Alfa tipo C gran prix car. The car was found dumped some where in the Arizona desert. The company i got the engine from are a well known English based vintage race car prep company who were very shadey on the details of the history of the car. The engine only cost me $400 as they didn't know alot about flatheads and had acquired an original motor to install in the car. Apperantly it was quite normal back in the 40s and early 50s in America to replace original engines (if major parts needed to be replaced) with the fastest readily available engines, as shipping parts from Europe was just to expensive. Once i had the engine i took it to be checked over (i was only 15 at the time) and found out it had only just been run in (result) so it went straight in my 32 roadster for 8 years and is now i my sitting room ready for the next car.

 

Another early Alfa?

Cool.

I know the Bamford Alfa Special was found near here, but I'm pretty sure that had a Caddy in it at the time...

 

Cris,

The car I drug out was the Harris car, never did say I drug out the Alfa or the Ferrari.

The Ferrari engine was melted on a few edges, was not a molten mass as one would expect.

The Alfa Motor resided down by the new building that biggs built after the fire.

My point about the Alfa, was it a real car or not and was it a true Short chassis touring spyder???
I keep hearing that it was a long chassis ugly car rebodied to look like Lauren's car.

I have no facts messed up whatsoever, I'm just trying to figure it all out from all the stories that seem to float around.
My story stands, I was there guys>>>

 

Neat thread, history and vagueries galore. I'll bite just to keep it going

Concept-
Pure exercise around any theme. Engineering, styling, layout, even manufacturing methods. It's a question best defined with another question. "What if"

Futuristic-
Depends if you're looking forward or backward. Forward, it's a vehicle centering around a prediction of change in lifestyle, and thus change in vehicle needs. That change may never happen. Looking back, it's more often a vehicle that unwittingly embodied a trait of newer vehicles.

Custom-
Any vehicle change outside the manufacturer's control. The manufacturer has carte blanche until point of sale/transfer. There are factory modified vehicles, such as racers with numerous configurations. But no OEM customs.