O/T Was I unreasonable? Gave painter 1 week to finish

I have walked away. He specifically told me " I work best with a deadline". So I gave him one. He could have said how about 2 weeks and I would have said ok. He didn't like the confrontation and it hurt his ego. I have since found out that I am not his first customer to leave with an incomplete job.

Please everyone let this thread DIE. We have kicked it all around and everyone is not going to agree. I mean no offense to painters or bodymen. That work is nasty and a health risk and it takes someone with real talent to do it properly. I still think a man's word should be good. If you tell someone something will be ready at a certain time you should make every effort to do it or at least be man enough to offer a valid reason why you didn't make it.

Did I steal the job? That was never my intention. He set the price and time frame. He told me he didn't want to finish it and to take my parts and leave. I now have no warranty on the job and a car that may look good in a pic but it is not complete. Only time will tell if I came out ahead or behind.

Thanks everybody. Please lets just let this thread DIE. After all it has been here about 24 hours and taken up a lot of space and just stirred the pot.

THANKS,
Bo

 

sorry to hear, man! take a baseball bat to his fuckin' kneecaps (no witnesses this time)! that really sucks that you had to miss your clubs car show for this asshole. i really like your car though...

 

right on, dude!

 

Got Rust, went thru this a couple years back with one of my O/T cars. Went in for a complete and minor bodywork for $3k. Added a couple things along the way and expected a 4k bill.

Was quoted at 3 weeks, and at 3 months still didn't have my car. I hadn't paid a dime, and kept offering to pay for some shop time, just please finish my car. Old fashioned begging and pleading trying to be super nice, and kept watching collision cars come and go. They rush painted it on a weekend, and got one of the colors wrong by a couple shades.

In the end, I took posession straight out of the paint booth and he asked for $1800. This is a metallic pearl two tone in custom colors, some emblem shaving, extra block sanding, and double cleared for buffability. It's every penny of $4k worth of work and the car looks fabulous to everyone who doesn't know it's the wrong color.

Was I red hot about it at the time? TOTALLY red hot.

In the end I look back and appreciate the deal it was. $2k is a fair trade for my aggravation, their errors, and the loss of use. But maddening at the time, and still frustrated that I cannot recommend a shop that made my car look fabulous.

Hang in there dude, the pain will fade, but the savings won't. Eventually there's a balance point.

 

Am I the only shop who uses contracts? It covers everyones ass. Payment terms laid out. Approximate timelines for various stages of completion.

I don't work on shit without a signed contract.

 

Nope, your not the only one. The shop that did all the body and paint work on Dad's '56 Olds used one. They stuck to the price quote even after hidden problems arose. They were two months late in deliverey though but under the circumstances it was understandable.

 

Nuff said let this thread go. Thanks to all.

 

As the former owner of a body shop, I have been in similar situations. Sometimes when painting a car, especially one that has been worked on in the past, there are things that crop up, which take extra time to correct. The owner of the car never knows, or cares about the "hidden surprises" , except for the fact that they do not see the progress talking place as fast as they would like.

If the guy does nice work, let him take the time he needs to do it right. There are also things to consider such as different drying times due to temperature and humidity, and if the shop has other jobs, then your car is certainly not the only one being worked on.

I have always been self employed, first in the auto body business, and now in the computer industry. In either business, the first threat of lawyers, or demand letters is a red flag for future problems, and luckily, I have only had a few experiences like that. If anyone serves me with a "demand" letter or ultimatum, I call their bluff and say goodbye... Imagine finishing a project under the gun, and being sued in the end anyway... to hell with that!

Sometimes things take time. You got a great deal, and it is too bad you severed what could have been a good relationship with your body guy. Since you have parts there, I'd try to smooth it out with him, let him know you needed the car, and go from there.

Working with people in business is hard, and when working on multiple projects, there are many unforseen pitfalls that can occur, no matter who is at fault, if all parties are sincere and honest, things usually work out. When you impose demands or threats on people, if they are smart, they will say goodbye... in my eyes, if someone is a problem now, they are going to be a problem forever...

I don't know the whole story of course, but in the pics , the car looks good.... 2k barely covered his labor and materials...

AB

 

Man, swdobbs got me fired up, too!
First off, being an accountant, you DON't have a clue about what bodywork entails! If you, and 20 other accountants add 2 numbers, you should all get the same answer. Pretty fuckin' simple.
Bring a car to 20 different bodyshops, and you'll get 20 different prices, levels of quality, methods of approach, time frames for completion, and types/quality of materials.
I'm not talking so much about collision work, that niche is pretty much figured out so the shops can make money (usually by shortchanging in quality of parts, and labor) and the insurance co's pay the least amount to fix it.
I'm talking restoration, custom body and paint. I've been doin it for over 30 years.
Most body shops will NOT do custom work. If they do, it's as a fill in between collison work. I wonder why that is?
Maybe cause they
1. Can't make as much money on it as 'regular' work
2. Don't have the equip, time, talent, experience to do it either 'right' or efficiently.
3. they don't want to deal with demanding customers, who want show car paint at Maaco prices.
4. They don't want comebacks, or badmouthing when the customer's expectaions are not met.
5. They do not want time constraints on doing a job that may pay 20 per hours, when they can knock off collision work, and make 60. (Yeah, even if they only charge 40 per hour, they can usually rush through a job, and make LOTS more!) The 60+ per hour jobs always take precedent.
Then add to that, the complications of doing quality body and paint work, underlying, unexpected problems, unusual problems (usually with paint) even when doing things by the book, and trying to do your best with pretty beat up cars, you can see why pro bodyshops won't do this work. It takes a patient, artistic, masochistic individual to do this type of stuff day to day for any length of time. You have to have a love for doing it, and be a poor businessman to keep at it, cause you'll never make as much as you would doing everyday bodywork.

 

Just had to respond to ChopOLds post- you are so right on the money man- most of us arent in it for the money-we love what we do- and do what we love.
I am a 'pro' bodyshop but I dont do collision work- I am assuming you meant collision shops wont touch the stuff ona regular basis.
After 4 years of hard work and lots of pasta for dinner at the house, Im finally seeing it start to pay off.
If I were him, Id go back, eat some crow- bring the guy a coffee and try to re build that relationship.
There arent a lot of guys out there that do what we do and do it well.

I think the $2K is cheap IF its a quality finish. Sounds like a lot of paint to me though and we paitn somethng at least once a week here.

Botom line (as I actually stated oin another post today) If you have had the work done and paid for it- the transaction is complete- if he hasnt finished the job AND you havent paid him for it- its sort of too bad.
Sounds like there was some miscommunication going on with your project. 10 weeks isnt even unreasonable if he wfound stuff to fix that was extra stuff he didnt see when the body work to the car came around...
If it was JUST a paint job, then yes its too long if he was only working on your car (yeah right) .
If you acted like that in my shop, I probably would have thrown you out after we were square on the bill. Sorry- primadonna goldchainer attitudes are left at the door here.
Good work for good money and friendships are built AFTER the job is done.

 

You misunderstood me. To cut and buff to a show shine you are correct 40+ hours. Even still, one week equals way over 100 hours and if his deadline was a week away, he would've been able to accomplish.

Game, set, and match. If 20 custom painters paint the same job, you will have 20 different finshed products, thats the nature of the beast and why the shit takes so long.


We can all agree that SWDobbs is an accountant and has absolutley no idea about bodywork, painting, or the labor/pricing which is involved. And for being an accountant he's not very good at numbers either. The custom paint/body industry is not construction and 90% done on a paint job does not leave the car in itself vulnerable. Apples and oranges in that instance. As for the shit talking, grow-up.

 

Some of you guys still don't get it!!!!! The painter said how much....set the time frame....blew the first deadline....didn't comunicate with his customer.......blew the next deadline....still no talky......told lies......missed those deadlines too!!!!! Now when the customer wants his car back the painter gets pissed off!!!!! In what world is it OK to take a customers money....set a timeline...and then have the balls to get pissed when the customer wants to enforce the deal (albeit,7 weeks past the original delivery date ). The guy fucked up...plain and simple. The painter didn't change the customers expectations by informing him of the problems with the job ( if there were any ). the painter continued to make excuses and tell the customer it would be done. way too many promises made and all of them broken.

By the way, I am a painter and when I tell acustomer their car will be done you can bet it will be done!!!!! BE YOUR WORD!!!!!!

 

I agree. Why does every painter who replied to this thread know how long it takes to paint a car EXCEPT for the painter who actually did it??

 

well Im not the one who did it but I have one otjer comment. Everyone seems to be split on who to 'blame' here.

Faults I see:
1) its your car- if the guy was running late on it and hadnt contacted you - did you call HIM? Phones work both ways- you have enail - does he? a Fax? DEMANDING gets you no where-my customers who demand dont get squat. Respect earns respect.

2) painters, metal fab guys and body work guys in restoration are artists- yes we can be moody etc but in the end you get a beautiful piece of artwork. Would you go into an art gallery and tell them ' you only wanted an OK piece of artwork' or try to begotiate the price? I think not. If you commissioned a piece and it took longer than expected- would you ask them to 'hurry it up' -NO. You would wait for the art to be created.Be patient- its just a car , man.

Bottom line here is communication screwed this deal up. Sounds like the paint guy didnt communicate enough as to why there was a delay and it sounds like the owner of the car didnt voice his opinions on the delay until after he got a hair across his ass about it.

Live and learn and the next time you have something done- keep in touch, ask questions every step of the way and if it doesnt seem like its going as it should (not as YOU want- you arent the pro here- he is) then talk to another shop and get it out of there.

 

I am sorry I just have to reply to this thread one more time. Communication is no good without follow thru. As I stated before I had CONSTANT communication with this guy. I was in his shop at LEAST once a day and sometimes twice. When I brought the car in (February) I told him about the show in April and it was "No problem, we will have you out way before then". Once again - I watch the car sit for about 3 weeks with NO PROGRESS and all the time I was checking on it. All I heard was "Your car is top priority, we aren't taking anything else in". He also said "Don't stress I will stress and get it done". Hollow promises without legs.

I can tell you why it wasn't being done it was because he was working on other projects. All this time I was watching smaller projects come and go and even a quarter panel repair and complete pickup repaint before mine was done(mine was in primer at the time). Communication? There was plenty of Communication. Too bad alot of it was lies.

Lenny, and you other owners out there how many times have you had an owner come into your shop and work to help you meet a deadline? My girl and I put in about 18 hours on Friday and Saturday morning working on the car. The final 2 1/2 hours Saturday morning (2am - 4:30am) we worked on the car while he slept in his office!

I believe I gave this guy every chance to finish the job and he was either too lazy or disorganized or both to finish. Do you still want to defend this guy?

 

Really not defending the shop. More just a comment on the lack of professionalism from some shops.
I agree that it sounds like he gave you the runaround. My gut instinct is that he way underquoted the job and figured he was farther ahead to blow you off and not lose his shirt too bad by taking in other work. Still boils down to communication. He communicated false hope to you by stringing you along. Most good shops will work at will and if the customer at anytime wants to pay for what's been done and go elsewhere that should be an option both parties can excercise.

You had a quote going into this deal for 3-4 weeks at a cost of 4 grand. Did you have qoutes from other shops to compare? If so what was the variation in price?

Let's do some math:
3 weeks labor (if he conservatively only worked a 40 hour week) would be 40x3=120 hours @ $you name the rate$$)=$

I'd guess a very conservative rate might be $40 per hour so 40x120=$4800.00
if he went over into the 4th week would add another $1600.00

so we're already up to $6400.00 for labor. Hard to spend every minute of a 40 hour week as billable hours but if he really worked closer to 50 hours he might be able to do 40 billable on your car.

Now let's figure some materials. misc essentials- sandpaper, tape, grinding discs etc. $3-4 hundred

gallon of filler primer and activator will add another 2 hundred

2 gallons of yellow base to assure coverage with basemaker. 4 gallons ready to spray sounds like alot of material but yellow is poor hiding. About $700.00

The quote should've come in at more like $8000 ish. Soooo, the pic you posted looks good. For 2 grand you got alot better deal than he created for himself.

When I read people's horror stories about how poor some shops seem to be at business management it sure gives me the urge to get back into it full time again...

 

sounds like you got him so pissed he flushed the job so he wouldnt have to deal with you anymore.
it happens

 

yep it does now that you said that.

 

I think I'm tired of this thread and will read something else-like GotRust suggested. Just wondering though, how many of you who do paint and bodywork professionally (and which I admittedly know squat) would be willing to have a prospective client with 10K to spend read your posts on this thread? Just curious..

 

If you are a pro ANYTHING you write on the HAMB should be OK for your customers to see.

I agree- time for this post to get some rest.

 

My '58 Impala was in the body/paint shop for almost one year. I finally got pissed enough that the guy finally finished it. His work was good but he took other jobs and forgot about mine.
Then about a year later, I had him paint my '61 Chevy wagon that took him a week to do...Go figure???

I now got my '59 Impala at another paint shop who said he'll finish it in three weeks. I drafted a contact up citing color, sanding, removal and re-installing moulding/chrome/seals and the date he'll be finished. It's specific that if he's late finishing or the work is not to customer's satisfaction, his final payment will be deducted by 20%. Finished date is 18 May....we'll see.

 

Why on earth would you bring another car to a shop that pissed you off? Lemme guess- cuz he was CHEAP.
And as for the contract YOU drew up- I would have thrown you out of my shop for being so demanding- its a car for christs sake. Whatever happened to good old communication....

Can we PLEASE LET THE THREAD END.

I started a new thread if you wanna post about this:
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178881

 

I really don't understand those of you who can sit there and slam the guy for reasons unknown!
Yes it was both parties fault in the communications part. If the body shop guy found all sorts of crap work done from previous deals, he should have been up front with the owner of the car. But, yes it was wrong to wait so long and not actually get anything done with the ride.
Next up, if you took your ride to a collision repair facility/ body-paint shop? At least you should have done some research on the shop and seen how that particular shop was opperating. In general, what was the majority of projects being brought in for work.

And for all of you who have never been into the prime aspects of doing body work, you do not have a leg to stand on when it comes to unseen problems on that ride. The owner new very well what was under that car. He knew what the body shop was up against. He knew of the hidden ellements. So to actually go out and slander this person and put his reputation into the dirt is a civil offense and can be used against you in the court of law. So, for all of you throwing the dirt at this guy, you should actually know the whole truth of the story and what the actual problems were with this car in the first place.
And to put a timeline on a paint project. Your up in the clouds.

I took on a project last year to help out a neighbor. He had built this ride from scratch and had it sitting in epoxy primer when it was given to me to finish. The owner had developed an illness and was gooing though a rough time with kemo. So I agreed to help him out on his ride. Well, there were a great deal of flaws in the body work, which I explained to him up front of the time it will take alone, just to rectify this part of his problem. So I got busy and was knocking it out. A month into the project, this guy was into my time, going down to the shop I was renting space from and giving the owner a hard time on my progress. Well, the owner of the complex had nothing to do with this project and told him to get F@#**d in a nice term.
Next thing I know, he is on my case for not getting it done any sooner. Mind you I told him of all the imperfections in his body work and it takes time and patience to get the skin completly ready for paint. I had to use all sorts of methods to makeit look striaght as an arrow on the sides. He was not one bit interested in what was intalled to get it correct, he just wanted the ride done. I spent over 250 hours fixing his crap work that had been doen buy who knows before I recieved the ride.
here is the kick in the teeth on this ride. I had finally finished all the prep work on this pig and was waiting my turn into the paint booth for the first coats of the base sealent before the main prime shootings, when I came down with a bug, which ended up being a minor stroke. iwas put in the hospital for a few days and told by the doc to stay indoors and get some theropy. I was down three months re-learning certain motor skills from this stroke. Now his ride was four months in the works.
Now for the grand finish, before I could get back to the ride, he went down to the shop and demanded for the owner to relinquish the ride back over to him. So he got his ride and went and had someone else paint the damn thing. I was out 250 + hours of hard as work, materials and my time for the space rented to do his ride.
And to this day, the SOB has not even contacxted my nor offered to pay for the work performed on his ride. I contacted the shop that finished the paint and assembly, they informed me that he too riped them off the agreed price and they were out more then $1800 on materials alone. Not to mention the price of the paint job.
We are now all incourt on this issue. myself, the two shop owners and this smuck that screwd us all.

Bottom line, unless you have been there, and have been snookered into doing a job on the real POS, that the owner knows has problems. You don't have a leg to stand on in throwing trash at this guy who just simply returned the project. You recieved a $10K paint job for $2K and have the balls to come on here and flame this guy you snookered......don't come my way.....I just might torch your POS with you watching. You sir, are whay people call a "chainer from hell". You have no concerns on anyone else except for your own wants. You have deep pockets and expect everyone to jump through hoops while you know darn well certain time frames are not negotiable, due tothe fact of the distortion given on the project.

I hope for your sake, he doesn't come back and sue you for defimation of charector, along with other sorts of missconduct.
You have crossed the line in my books for any kind of automobile work. Good luck in the future MAC! I bet you have one of those stupid friggen rag dolls leaning up against your POS lemon at gatherings. Shame on you for trying to destroy this mans' livelyhood and means of feeding his family.

You sir will meet an old friend that only comes to visit those who cause harm to the innocent. Kharma will visit you full circle. And it will be when you are your prime as a social whit. You sir are now cursed under your own words and selfish attitude.
God have mercy on your black heart.

Lord Maximo
Dezert Venom Kustomz
Roy, UT.