Halibrand QC streetable differential update

A while back, when I first joined the H.A.M.B. board ,I mentioned that I was designing my own version of a streetable differential for my Halibrand Champ Quick Change.. Well the first stage is complete. My objective was to build an affordable diff. that would use standard Ford 9 in. parts , such as spider gears, 3in axle tubes , 28 or 31 spline axles, and normal ford backing plates brakes drumes etc. Much of the Low cost for me and most other rodders I know , is the fact that most of the Ford stuff , I already have laying around from past projects etc. And.. usually readily available if something happens out on the highway.. My next step is to design sidebells from steel to attatch 3in. tubes to and a second bolt pattern much like Halibrand made to adapt Early Ford side axle tubes to, shortened to where the 3 in. tubes will exit the ends giving the appearance of a V8 look, while also adding strength to the sidebell adapter.I am enclosing PICS of the Diff.. Let me know what you think..

 

That is some beautiful work and an awesome thread.

 

It sure looks nice. As with most things I'm afraid to ask how much.
Since I'm here,are there any axle bells that are a bolt on for the big 11 bolt Frankland quickie.I'd like to get away from the bolt in axle tubes.

 

I can't wait to see this thing finished...amazing

 

are you going to build a posi?

please keep us posted,i need several of them.

-danny

 

Thanks, I'm not sure what the final cost is , as mine was a gift from my son... He runs the CNC shop where this was done. Now that he has the program a lot would depend on the cost of the metal used.. mine is plain ol' steel with no specifc specs that I know of. Its a chunk he had laying around the shop. I only wanted to make my QC streetable..Not any intentions on racing it, but he did say that he could make it out of just about anything thats out there.. purely up to what the customer wants. I did get a Quote on a chunk of metal from a steel supplier in this area, and it was about $125.00 for the steel alone( very high right now!!) . I'll post again when I find out how much he would have to charge for labor.. He said he would be willing if there is any interest out there. Also while I am thinking of it, I am no QC expert, and I have only been familiarized with this old Halibrand Champ.. A fellow HAMBER named Steve Hansen was kind enough to send me an old junk open axle rear to do research and compare possibilities for the future projects..Can't thank him enough!! great guy!! I don't know how the Winters, Franklin and others compare and what might be interchangeable... If someone is interested in sending a drawing of their SPOOL with all dimensions I could determine if they are the same.. Maybe I will make another drawing of my spool and post it so you can see what I belive to be the critical dimensions. Any questions I'd be glad to answer if I can.

Later (manacoem)

 

Don't know yet .. I need to get hold of one to see if it could be made small enough to clear the pinion pilot. I'll keep you posted.
Later (manacoem)

 

PLEASE keep us posted. I would really love one of these

 

What side plates for the Halibrand will this work with ? The ones that adapt the quickie to early Ford passenger car bells ? I think that would be the best looking setup.

 

The side bells that I have are Bensons.. For a closed axle.. Mine have been cracked and welded over the years and without extensive work I wouldn't trust them. One side is deeper than the other , but every spool I have ever seen looks just like the ones I have..Maybe with some help and measurements I could know for sure..
Early ford look is what I'm shooting for.. I'm just a tightwad and looking for the most affordable way to do it.. Also if my guesses are correct , the early Ford axle bells would mask the difference in length of the Halibrand bells, as they would be hidden inside the early ford bells. Thanks Later (manacoem)

 

Don't know.. I've only seen pictures on the net, I really would need measurements to be sure. Later (manacoem)

 

If it's truely affordable(not necessarily "cheap")and POSI I'd damn sure buy one!

 

Super information. I love the Champ, but differentials are difficult to find that work with the Halibrand side plates for Early Ford axle bells.
I am researching the fact that they used to use 3/4 ton carriers from Ford and Studebaker for this conversion. I purchased two of them and they are too wide. The dimension I come up with from a spool is 7.25 which is and inch shorter than the carriers I purchased. I would purchase one of yours if they become available. The Diamond Trak cost about $800 and requires 3 hours machine work to adapt the unit.
The Halibrand side plates or CAE side plates are very hard to come by and go for $300 $400 + on ebay. Perhaps you could make those also. The Champ cases are plentiful on ebay and still can be purchased new from Halibrand for $610.

"Keep the Howl going!"

 

These are the side plates I used back in '70 when I built a rearend for a supermod....the ones I asked about in my reply #9. Anybody know if these are still available ? They adapt the Halibrand Champ center section to early Ford passenger car housings. Of course we used a spool with these plates....what's needed is a differential (spider) housing that fits between these.

Piece of cake to change the housing outer ends to 9" Ford or truck floaters (ugh ! ).

 

Haven't posted lately .. My kid that does the machining for the QC had his garage burn down,and is in the middle of a real mess so it'll be a while before he can get back with the labor to machine the diff. . Bear with me. I'd like to come accross a set of the side plates that fit the early Ford axle housings to the Champ center!! If the bearing spacing matches the original spool size , it should be a bolt on situation...I still believe that there are savable champ center sections out there for next to nothing!! I have found three thus far.. 2 usable and 1 with usable parts, but a bad center section ..All for free so far. Most people are scared away because they are unsure of how to set them up... Grab anything you can get your hands on cheap , and put the word out that you are looking. They are pretty simple really.. The worst thing about them is the assembly with heat from what I can gather. I'm no expert either, but I just can't believe they can be that bad.. Look at what we USED to be afraid of in the past...CARBURATORS, AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS ETC. now everyone does them.

gotta go! Later (manacoem)

 

Halibrand, Benson and CAE made 11 and 12 bolt side plates that adapt early Ford housings to the Champ center section. I advertise on Fordbarn and have found 2 sets so far. The problem still exsist of a differential that will work in these. I have a friend who used XKE units for two of his cars. The spacing of the bearings with the side plates is 6 7/8. Diamond Trac makes one that will work with some modifications but the cost is extremely high. They must have used something that was a true differential. Does anyone know what they used? This is a 3/4 ton truck, too wide.

 

i have a detroit locker for the q/c. axle spline count is 12...i am pretty sure that this is the old ford spline/size. i am looking for 2 adapter plates so i can run the ford side bells.. what is really bad is that my future son in law tossed 1 of the adapters about 8 months ago when he was "helping" me clean up the garage! i was going to use it for a pattern / sample... now i need 2 !!!
dave

 

I have some adapter plates that you can borrow. you only need one. You can machine up a set for yourself and give me one! There was another guy somewhere on the net already making that part. In regards to the spacing......halibrand, jones, cae they were all interchangeable with the same spool. The bearing spacing was identical. If you have a spool, you can carve up your differential to match the dimensions of the spool. It is about bearing landings and ring gear location. Actually come to think of it......if you have a gold track that was made for a champ rear end......any brand.....there are your dimensions that are critical. When you use the early bells the bearings are in the right location. The problem is the width of the bells. They are too small to clear the diff. This is where you need to do your carving to make it clear the bells. We did not change the bearing location on a stock gold track. We just cut down part of the case to allow for clearance. It is not a $800 dollar job. You would be surprised how simple it is. Again a locker is not a good idea. They click and clack and are sensitive to tire stagger. Get a gold track. They are bullet proof. Used they are cheap.
The other thing you could do is run the spool and skip the differential. You are all running skinny tires. you don't have to worry about having a challenge to park your cars. You are not hammering around the street with big old Firestone block tires. Your cars are light........Forget the differential. Move on to something else! You would be surprised that you do not notice the difference........and the burn outs....you know both tires will be spinning. And nothing to worry about or break. I know noodle time is fun. It is what makes this car thing fun. We all tend to get stuck in the "i gotta have it" mode. Myself included. That is why I did it. I have the parts here for the second one............. But I think I am just going to run my spool and forget about it. It will give me more time to figure out how to adapt an airbag to my early bell 3 spoke steering wheel.......you know we all gotta be safe!

 

Thanks, I am going to get a Gold Track and try to make it fit. I am using the Champ Center section with 12 bolt side adpaters for the early Ford bells. The bearing surfaces must be in the 6 7/8 range which I am told is correct for the Gold Track also. I will keep you posted as I don't want a spool.....something will break with a spool, I know from experience....I will never change the gears, but I got to have the look!
Lynn

 

This has been a very interesting post to follow but a word of caution for those of you that might be thinking of using a locked spool style rear for road driving applications. This is not a well thought out plan, the locked drive rear end is exceptionally tricky to drive on wet pavement surfaces and could result in a rather serious driver error situation. .

 

I believe that Winters still makes an adapter ring that works to mount V/8 Ford bells on a Halibrand champ car QC. Watch out for the different 11 and 12 bolt patterns on the center sections.

 

That is some damn nice work, good luck with it. Great project, hope to see more.

 

Thanks, I'm still working quietly in the back ground on this project. I just located a good set of 40's vintage axle housings so I can start measuring up the adapter rings.. My goal is to make something that just bolts on a normal champ center section without altering the original Halibrand dimensions. That way anybody with a champ center can put it together without having to do any further machining.. I'll keep ya posted..

Jerry (manacoem)

 

I am working on my second Champ for the street. I am using CAE side plates which are quite beefy compared to Halibrand. Tomorrow I am going to take the unit down to the Quick Change Exchange in Santa Fe Springs and see if they are interested in making some differentials. They made the ones for Halibrand when they were doing Champs....Diamond Trak.
Here are some photos. Later the file is too big.
Lynn

 

Here are pictures of my latest attempt to build a Champ for Early Ford axle tubes.

 

If you can break a halibrand spool i will give you some praise. I am sure you will not run dirt tracks like a sprint car. My budy is a retired sprint car champion and his roadster runs a spool with pretty good sized tires. he drives it hard like you should. He is unable to break it. Lem Tolliver is his name. He is a wild man. You cannot tell there is a spool in it except when he goes around a corner real slow. I dont know about weather conditions and a locked rear end. Again you never know until you try it. It is always good to experiment. Dont always believe what you hear. I will post pictures of a gold track and a spool and you will see the similarities. You can see in your photo the reduced diameter of the bells of the early ford parts. the bearing and ring gear are in the right locations. it is just carving down the bold track outer cover to clear the smaller dia. of the bell. I will try to show you in photos. Do you have a spool or a gold track in your hands? if not just PM me and i will get you shots. I am just trying to help. I wish I was around when I was going through this myself!

 

Keep us posted how it works outo . . . always insterested in Q.C. work. I'm putting a 10" Frankland in my coupe and I also have a NOS Halibrand V8 for another project. Have seen Champs around for years - never dabled in one.

Dale

 

Impressive.

 

You'll more likely break an axle. But the key difference is your buddy drives on dirt - not asphalt. Drive the same way on a hard surface & you'll be breaking things...

Spools on the street are just plain dumb.