Has anyone lifted the body on a complete full fendered A to verify the VIN on the frame? Is this doable (to get it up without major disassembly/problems)? This is required by the DMV to get the paperwork squared away. Thanks for any help!
On my 31 you can see it on the drivers side frame rail just in front of the firewall. No need to move anything.
Thanks, will take a look on my 30 coupe tonight to see if it's visable there. Other threads on this subject indicated it's under the body adjacent to the clutch brake pedals.
I have parted out probably a couple hundred Model As and have never yet seen one frame with an engine number stamped in it. I know some had the numbers but I've never seen one.
The VIN is stamped on the frame, on the driver's side just in front of the firewall. No need to remove the body, but you will have to remove the fender if you have one. The problem is that over the last 75 years, the VIN could be rusted/pitted/worn away and you might not find anything. The original fender welting was a great conductor of moisture and often times the frame is rusted/pitted in this area. If you know what your vin is, you might want to restamp it. If it is a stock Model A, the motor number should match the frame number, but, of course, motors have been swapped over the years so they rarely do!
I think they were in a different spot on 28-29's. I have another 31 frame and it is in the same spot as the one on my coupe.
Do a search on here for "Model A Vin" and you will find MANY posts regarding that issue and where to find it, as well as possibly a few that will talk about using an acid to bring it back to life, even if for a short period so you can photograph it. If you need a star stamp to 'restore' your VIN#, Lee Valley has them cheap - $3.50 + shipping. The original A stamp was 3/16", but the Lee Valley stamp is 15/64", which is just a hair larger, but 99.9% of the DMV inspectors will have no clue.
This 30 has a 1974 OHC 2L Ford hooked to the A drive train (popular swap some years back), so can't go by an engine #. It is currently registered as a 30 but has a 28 VIN # on the title, probably from a replacement engine that was there at one time. The title is from a different state so Calif requires a VIN verification - that's why the frame number is important for registering it in Calif. The 28 VIN is nowhere on the car and would like to get a 30 VIN assigned. Interesting that PASADENAHOTROD has never seen a VIN on cars he's parted. Maybe they were rusted away.
If that is what you've got, I'd go ahead and stamp the VIN on the frame and make damned sure the old one is gone. Unless you're in a hurry, I'd clean the area, stamp the new vin, encourage it to rust and corrode a bit, clean it back up, make a rubbing of the vin, then paint over it. Process'll take a week or so, but should be worth it. I'd also stamp it in the right location, regardless of whether or not you have to pull the body to do it. Something you might be able to try is what I remember someone on here saying they did for their vin# rubbing. They took the stamps and put their number into the skin of an unrolled beercan. Made their rubbing, and took it in to be titled. He said the chick at the DMV said "That came out good!" Just my thoughts.
My 31 was under the cowl area on the top of the frame and not visable with the body on. I took the body off any way to paint the frame and took a picture for the title change and they never asked to see it. You must be the guy that PM'd me
some people say that you can stamp any old chunk of metal. with your VIN. and do a pencel trace of it, and use that! i'm not saying i did it, but it could work !
HAMB'ers are great people! Did a HAMB search as suggested and came up with lots of info. According to other HAMB'ers, American built A's have the frame VIN number under the body and Canadian built A's have the frame VIN in front of the firewall. Back to my original question, can the body to frame bolts be removed and the body lifted enough to see these numbers without removing lots of other parts? The DMV cops will need to see the numbers.
if your "A" has the the ORIGINAL trans cross member....look for it on top of the trans cross member on the passenger side,easy if you have original floor....an old timer told me about this , and i have found it to be true but remember these cars are old and the cross member could have been changed , so dont panic if it dont match...you may just have to dig deeper,it sucks to have to pull the body if you dont need to
Thanks for all the help. Can't find any numbers so far. Will have to start pulling sheet metal and lift the body up to check the left frame rail in the cowl area. What has been looked at so far is in great shape for 77 years old so hopefully the numbers (if there) are legible.
I think the number referred to above as on the "trans crossmember" is the assembly plant code on the BODY cross rail that is right behind the removeable wooden floorboards, at the base of the driver's seat. This is a short code consisting of one or two letters indicating name of assembly plant and a short run of numbers referring to that body's sequence at the assembly. It is not any kind of identifier and is way to short to be a believable serial number, but you might get an inexperienced clerk to accept it as a serial... There isn't an actual trans crossmember, and there aren't generally any numbers on the crossmember right abaft the trans.
I have only two Model A frames in my backyard, and they both have numbers stamped where these guys are saying, left side under the cowl area. There's some rust, but you can read them. If the DMV is gonna make you disassemble a complete car, you will probably need to remove the splash apron on that side too after lifting the body. Major pain, you're gonna have to remove fenders too. Geez, half the car's gonna come apart!
How does this work in Texas I have a 30 model-A and the motor # does not match the old registration that was in 1960?
I'll answer your question. Yes you'll have to remove the running board apron and boards, and lift the body. Remember there is a strip of fabric between the body and the top of the frame so you have to scrape it off. Is this car already built? Or, is it a rust wagon ready for building? About the 28 vs 31 numbers, you'll have to go with whatever your regristration/title/bill of sale says. The more documentation you have the better. The pencil rubbing is a good idea and is required here in Texas under certain circumstances. I'm going to have a brass tag made and mount it on the firewall down close to the frame rail. You can get tags from places like Mac's or Bratton and stamp them yourself and rivet it on. I heard that suggestion here on the HAMB and it makes sense even if it may be overkill. I don't think the DMV is going to make you lift the body off. Don't tell them that the VIN is under the cowl and you won't open that can of worms. Just point to the tag and shut up. With the DMV, the more talking you do, the deeper you get and they start to freak out. I hate to go in there because I get a different story everytime I go. It's a crap shoot but, good luck and if you don't mind, come back and let us know how it goes so others here will know. Thanks!
Do you have a cop friend He can verifiy the numbers for ya ! Then you don't have to go to the DMV. The form is at the Dmv,. And the plate deal on the firewall works great !! Just like Aman said Follow what he said and your home free!! I wish I had the form number for ya . But just ask them for a peace officer to verify vin numbers form.
Like it has been said here - it's a crap shoot at the DMV. I've registered other vintage cars in the past with paperwork problems and the DMV will end up sending you to the CHP for a VIN verification - and the CHP guys know their stuff (like a friend who tried to register his 80's Jeep as a pre smog year with a title he bought. The officer looked at him and said "do you want to go to jail and have this thing impounded"). I've done the get a form and have it signed off by someone other than the DMV or CHP too. But, since this complete driving full fendered Mdl A should have a good number on the frame, I'd like to use that number so it will be as legit as possible. Once I get the number off the frame, I will restamp it on the frame cross rail that is just under and in front of the seat. Can anyone tell me how many bolts hold the body to the frame? I know there will be lots of sheet metal bolts, just wondering how many are through the body and into the frame (someone thought 12)? I'd like to get this thing to Paso on Memorial Day - legally Thanks again for the concern - HAMB'rs are great people.
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