LS-1 and 6 speed tranny - what's it worth?

And how much trouble would it be to put it in a '49 Willys Overland?

Nephew hit a utility trailer with his Camero (that's all I know, no details yet) headed back to college (he wasn't hurt -- at least physically ). Low mileage crate engine and tranny.

Insurance company totaled car and brother said he'd take $3500 for the wreck.

Would this be a good deal, or more trouble than it's worth?

If the intake is damaged how hard would it be to replace with either stock or "traditional" in take?

thanks

 

Not a nickle where the flathead is king.

 

Those things have a coil on each cylinder-real ugly. They make carburetor intakes for 'em, but I don't think you can put on a traditional distributor.
Hemis and Willys go together like peas and carrots.

 

it sure aint worth 3500. It'll go in any place an SBC will go you just have to move some things around. I don't know that anyone makes a carb setup for one, I guess you could make up a sheet metal intake but then your timming would be all jacked up. Of course you could probably contact MSD or someone and get some sort of high dollar high zoot race stuff, maybe by the time you throw enough money at it you'll be able to drive it.

I like 'em simple but if you want to throw one at a jeep give it hell.

 

The intakes are plastic and putting a carb on will only cost more(due to the extra ecu/msd module needed to fire the coil packs), plenty on ebay from guys "upgrading" intakes.

find a 1/2 ton and make it cool. put it in a 1st gen camaro or a chevelle, and save the willys for something cooler than a plastic engine. my .02

 

53 we're currently puttin' one in a 50 Buick. Sounds like blasphemy for sure but the guy has a couple of 50s and 60s style cars already and wants to own a Goodguys Style car. I suggested that I knew where there was a tall deck 427 that we could build him a blower motor from but he's set on stylin' with the high zoot guys once a year.

Into a low mile engine and tranny for 900 bucks, and sweat draggin it out of the wreck.

 

So they paid him $14000 and let him keep the car??

Last 6 speed I sold brought $1500. Got a friend with a new crate LT-1--$3500. Another friend bought a similar car LS-1/auto for $1200. Food for thought.

As far as that in an Overland....I think yes, cool, do it--just keep the hood shut when the elitists/purists are around Besides, a 49 Willys ain't really a hot rod.
You can park next to me--I'm putting a Vortec in a Caddy. THAT should bring some real hate.

 

Note "Overland" -- that's the flat-fendered jeep kinda thing.


Overlands are more the "straight six" kinda thing, but . . .

Please excuse mower

 

Wild Turkey,

Before I found my way back to traditional hot rodding I was looking real hard at putting this exact combo in my '37 Coupe-Express. I looked a long time and typically the cheapest combo like this was going for $2,500 on that auction site. Really clean, low mileage combos were going for over $4,000 and some even higher than that.

Most everything written above is true. The ls1 is not a pretty motor and it sure isn't traditional. However, having said all that, it is your truck and you are the one that is going to be living with it.

My 2 cents,

Thor

 

For what its worth, in my neck of the woods a decent price on a 70-80k mile LS1/ 6 speed drop out is around $3500-4000. If you are willing to exert the time/ effort on selling off what other parts may be salvageable you could probably do ok. Sounds like a good deal to me but it also sounds like others on here have done better.

 

There is a front cover available for a standard distributer for these things as well as a four barrel manifold, they even make some pretty decent looking regular valve covers for the LS engine. I've seen a couple of these built this way and they can look pretty nice.....in fact most people wouldn't have a clue as to what it is......what it IS NOT is a flathead or a nail head, not very traditional but in 30 years....who knows?

 

..........you could always find out where Todd Varble got those goofy looking "Ardun" valve covers for his faux-car LS1.

 

Hemis go good with anything! Straight sixes go good in dumpsters. Just kidding.

 

They aren't even a little traditional, but they're light, fast, strong, in fact everything a good engine should be. You put these in a car because they work really well. You put a Nailhead in a car because it's really cool. Your choice. I'm not a big fan of engine covers but I'd make an exception in the case of an LSx. Good looking they aren't.

 

After having just finished an LT1/700R4 combo I'll tell you to get ready to spend some buck$$$. Everything is a lot more costly with the Gen II and even worse with the Gen III mill than the garden variety mill. Brackets, accessories, wiring, and all the computer BS is dizzying. Yes the power of those engines is nice and the manners of EFI is great but remember, EFI don't make power. Get a carbed manifold and use a conventional distributor if you can. You'll be driving it much sooner, have a lot simpler package and still be able to roast the tires.

 

Here is one with a different intake and troddle body
TPIS

 

the T56 Min. $1500, 2Gs for the LS1

 

there are a couple companies on ebay that all they do is pull and sell low mileage GM stuff. Like Schram Auto, I've done a few Gen III swaps with engines/trannies from them. A camaro LS1/6 speed will go for at least $3.5k with accessories, harness, computer and fuseblock. and they'll have it delivered to your door for less than $500, all steam cleaned off and in good shape.
to pull the engine yourself and possibly have to hunt down some broken parts, $1.5k is probably fair for the trans, maybe $1.5k for the engine...you'd be better off buying an aftermarket wiring harness.

No, an LS1 is not traditional but just because you've got an LS1 doesn't mean it has to be all Goodguys'd out and lookin like a damn easter egg. Those engines are great for reliability, efficiency, power and driveability. So if you're looking to be able to drive your truck daily or on long trips, it's not a bad idea.

For what you'll spend on dropping a Gen III in, you can't get an oldschool engine to perform as well with as good of mileage and reliabilty...the trade-off is that you don't have the nostalgia.


there are also plenty of trim covers that go over the top of the engine(both GM and aftermarket) that will cover the coilpacks/wiring and intake so it looks simple and clean. stock intakes are easy to find and not expensive.

For the life of me I don't understand why someone would go through the trouble(and $$$) to swap a carb/intake onto an LS1...it doesn't give it any wow or nostalgia. sure, peak hp is up a little bit, at the top of the powerband where you won't ever use it. to me it defeats the purpose of putting new technology in. all you have to do with those things are plug the color coded or labeled wires in to the connectors that can't really be mixed up (square block in a round hole kinda thing). just plug it in and drive it.

I've got a TPI setup in my '56 and it's great. I'm putting a carb'd 455 in my wildcat and looking forward to running dual quads on it. You can probably guess which one has A/C and is my daily driver...it's my DD for good reason.

 

greasel,

You make some excellent points and I would have to say I agree with what you were saying. Reliability, great gas mileage, and 300+ hp (400+ hp with some pretty simple bolt-ons) were all reasons I was originally looking at an LS1. I just couldn't get past the look of them.

Thor

 

6 speeds (T56) and LS1s are going to do nothing but go up in price. There are only so many 6 speed camaros out there and all the muscle guys are swapin them in. You can crack down some serious gas milage with it. And there are so many aftermarket parts out there for the LS1 it is crazy.

 

I swapped a ls1/aod into a friends 69 Chevelle and used the whole f body wiring, steering column, instrument cluster and all emissions. Flowmaster and home made k&n filter assy it chassis dyno'ed at 285 horse and 302 torque and gets 25 mpg at 60 with the windows down. Hmmmm, good gas mileage and plenty of reliable power, sign me up . Oh yeah thats why I'm doing an ls1/t56 in my 56 chevy. Yeah they're ugly but if you are afraid to drive 'em you can't go to the car show in the first place. Trailers are for horses and boats

 

You can spot a chevy powered hotrod at a car show a mile away..

They are the ones where the owners are embarrassed to open their hoods.
That's the new traditional hotrod, One where you won't open your hood... Traditional, yeah right.

Spend the big bucks then take it to the cruise-in with the hood closed??
The new tradition.

NOT

What people are asking for these motors and what they are actually worth is a totally different story... Not worth the trouble, not worth the price, not worth the money updating, not worth the price of the plastic attached.

When is GM actually going to perfect a complete plastic engine? Plastic as in Planned Obsolescence. I know they want to inject $3 worth of plastic beads and charge the customer $10,000 mark up. It's coming...
..When will a Plastic GM engine show up at the cruise-in with the hood closed like all the other gm powered Fords. All the Left Wing GM fanatics will naturally think it's the best thing since sliced bread.

general motors Engines get the respect they deserve by the people that are too embarrassed to open their hoods - Even when the body is a rare (rare that it's lasted that long) 30s/40s gm body.

During the 20s thru the 50s, general motors out produced and outsold Ford by a factor of two to one.
Yet there are still millions of old Ford Cars out there with their original engines in them -But you have a hard time finding a 20s/30/40etc. gm body with anything under the hood.

The gm cars typified the Peak of Planned Obsolescence from 1926 thru to today.
That's why gm engines demand no respect by the hotrod crowd.
Even a 5.0 liter will out power and outlast a gm engine...

Their are millions of old Flatheads still out there yet the planned obsolescence engines that gm was building have long since died. Just like the bodies -of which gm produced twice as many as Ford from 1927 to 1955.

Planned Obsolescence is the bane of general motors and and the Major reason that they get no respect at the hotrod shows and cruise-ins, Even by their own owners who are embarrassed to open the hood.


People can only believe the marketing hype for so long before they realize that it was the CEO of gm who in 1926 invented the idea of Planned Obsolescence.
And Idea that everything should have a death date built into it. Just like all the gm cars from 1927 up. Death Date as in you'll be back when we have caused your old car to prematurely wear out and die.
Gm still builds acceptable cars that have transmissions that you have to pay 5 grand to have them fixed at the gm dealership when the warranty is gone. Gm engines/brakes/electronics/differentials/etc. are no different...

What the LS1 engine/tranny is actually worth and what people will pay are two vastly different stories

 

Check out www.ls1tech.com

Lsx engines are wonderful pieces of technology, but sure are not pretty. Like a hemi, nailhead or a flatty.

 

moe, that's a lot of hate for the most commonly swapped and mass produced modern auto v8. I'm pretty sure the aftermarket response to these engines was faster than any other auto engine, you could build a Gen III 'gm' engine without one GM part in a matter of a few years...not because it was such a poor engine but it's such a good platform for high performance. I don't know of very many production engines that can reliably be flogged at 500hp with stock(ported) heads and factory short block.
the aftermarket is so strong for these because it's sooo easy to do basic stuff and get 600hp naturally aspirated; after that it's blowers, turbos and laughing gas for 4 digit power numbers...no, GM didn't build them to hold up to that but the platform allowed people to build them up to that.
as far as all the 'plastic'...the intake and wiring harness/injectors are plastic, there's really not that much though. most of what I've seen on the engines that I've swapped is a lot of aluminum and well engineered gaskets/gasket surfaces. oh yeah, the intake-head gaskets are plastic with rubber/silicone seals around them, so they snap in place and you drop the intake right on. no screwin around with silicone on the ends of the lifter valley. the timing cover and oil pan are done well, the seals work well.

what would you prefer the intake and injectors/wiring harness to be made of if plastic is so bad?

btw, the 1992 5.0 GT had
225hp/4000rpm
300 ft-lb/3000rpm

starting in 1998 and following, the LS1's had
305-350hp
335-365ft-lb depending on year and configuration(camaro/vette/T-A)

and still, for the money it costs to put them in, you can't get the same performance, reliability and economy out of it, per dollar, with an older engine. this comes not from media hype but from personally swapping them into old cars for people. so far it hasn't costed more than 5 grand parts and labor for me to swap one of these in, that doesn't seem all that outrageous to me.

as for people keeping their hoods down, it's not that they're embarrassed, I know several that just don't want to deal with the hastle of people getting mad at them for swapping a new engine into their car because they like to drive it all the time.

without anything on top of them they do look pretty ugly but with a simple composite, fiberglass or heck, even thin sheetmetal trim, if you cover the coilpacks on top of the valvecovers and the intake, all you see is aluminum heads, short plug wires(no mess coming from the distributor) and manifolds.

I definitely dig oldschool engines and don't mind messing with a carb and distributor(I'll admit I'm not a big fan of points) but there's a few reasons 'they don't build 'em like they used to'...they really have made improvements in engine design, as easy as it is to believe sometimes, their plan is not how to screw us over and sell us the worst crap ever.

 

Moe, they don't raise the hood becuase they are sick of listening to the rant all day long. They are trying to have a good time at the show that your car couldn't make it to because parts of its engine are still laying on the freeway. You can't pigen hole all HOT RODDERS. It is all about being different.

 

edelbrock makes a carb conversion for the motor. I personally like that motor...just not in the older stuff...

 

MOEFUZZ,give it a f%#g rest,if you haven't noticed,there are a lot more chevy powered hot rods out there than anything else.how many small block chevys from the fifties on are still being used today?Oh yeh,check out my rust free 20's chevAlso to answer the initial question,that is a fair deal for LS1/6spd and would make a reliable,powerfull drivetrain in that Willys,go for it.

 

Wild Turkey, you still thinking about picking up the gen III?

another thing you could do is stick a Cummins 4bt inline 4 turbodiesel in. only if you want 500 lb-ft of torque with 35-40mpg, though.

 

LS1's are ugly. Ford Cammers are beautiful yet largly ignored. Can anyone come up with a reason as to why?


LInk: http://www.karkraft.com/new_page_2.htm

 

once you start talking about wiring harnesses you have lost 98% of us... oh wait it's the "new" hamb... 16.8% of us that arent here from rock crawling or mini trucking