HEMI Tech- Transmission adapters, flywheels, starters

Althoug this was back in the day ,I'll share it anyway 'cause some info stays the same . The long bell 331 was never produced with a std. trans. so there was never a lower cover with a hole for a throwout fork . I used a an adaptor similar to the HH unit pictured in a previous post , it had a slot cut in it and I had to cut a notch in the lower cover for full throw ,as I was using a Cad/LaSalle 3 spd , I used the stock throwout bearing and fork .I used a Dodge I-6 flywheel and had the flywheel redrilled for a Long style 11 inch 3 finger clutch from a Ford truck . This was for the street ONLY . Do not under any circumstances use this setup for racing as the cast flywheels will not stand the RPM's and the resulting explosion can and will do serious damage !!

 

I've been talking to Pat at Wilcap quite a bit lately and just ordered an adapter from him for my T56. He threw out some ideas about notching the long bell on the 331 and some other things that could be done, but in the end, for these long bell motors, the hydraulic t/out bearings is looking like the easy answer to this modification problem. Couple holes for the lines and for the bleed tube. Of course the trick is still getting the hydraulic T/out bearing set up, but once it's up and going, things will prove to be pretty slick.... I HOPE!! I'll let you know how it works out in the end...

 

You just saved yourself a ton of grief by calling Pat. Smart move. I will allways question those adapters that use a spacer between the crank and flywheel / flex plate................................

 

Fully agree! Pat is super cool and full of knowledge! Afterall... how long has Wilcap been around??

I'll keep you posted and Pat, if you're reading THANKS a ton! Can't wait to see the adapter and I especially can't wait to bolt that trans up! I will be calling you for more help on getting the T/Out bearing setup and everything.

I'll do a little tech article on the whole set up when I'm done. I'll take tons of pictures and give you as much detail as possible.

 

Hey scooter, Ill be interested in seeing how your setup pans out. Great post btw....

Rat

 

Well almost.

Bob told him to eat dirt, so that's why we have a nice thread going.

I don't think Bob knows about the HAMB or forums.

 

Cool! I hope this is all helpful to someone! I will post as things unfold with this transmission and adapter.

What gives? This is the second time I've heard this in one day...

I've mentioned this before, Pat specializes in transmission adapters and so far his service and help has been top notch.

 

OK..I'm at somewhat of a loss here to understand why everyone is so married to the idea of putting T-10's (Super or not) behind their early Hemi's. There is no way this transmission will hold up under any type of abuse from a modified Hemi. They just can't take the torque. In my humble opinion your much better off going with the Ford Toploader or the Mopar A833 in the long run. As far as adapters go... if $$$$$ are not a concern then any of the adapter guys..HotHeads,TR Waters, Wilcap can fix you up with what you need for an easy bolt together drivetrain.

 

Not everybody is doing a T-10 . . . I'm setting mine up with a Tremec TKO with 9310 gears. Pretty strong transmission . . . and I can easily setup the shifter in a position that is similar to where a 39 box would have been.

 

Time for my 2 cents worth. Have a 392, wanted a manual trans, no other restrictions. That was 5 months ago.

Talked with TR Waters, Wilcap, and HHH. All had excellent technical advice. Couple seemed like "machinists" if that explains anyone's prickly response, but all were very gracious during our 15 minute tech call. Further research led me to nothing but good results from their customers. You can't go wrong with any of these guys IMO. I ended up with HHH because I was already ordering some other stuff, and choosing a chevy manual ruled out one of em (TR waters?).

Transmission, went with an M22. Seriously considered an A833, but started looking and discovered there's a thousand variations. Choosing a chevy trans opened up availability because they're everywhere. Also allows a vintage ansen blowproof, because they're way more findable in chevy pattern, and wanted some vintage to balance out the billet adapter. It was with great reluctance that I trimmed the virgin bolt-on cover to clear the adapter.

 

I'm using Cragar 401 and Offenhauser 3640 adapters to put a '37 LaSalle 3-speed behind a 354. The trans is being modified for later gears/syncros and shortened tailshaft to run a Ford torque tube. Rear end is a '40 Ford with Cyclone quick change and Dutchman axles (HRW conversion).

 

If anyone is going to use the new Tilton / Sonic bellhousing which doesn't have the big bolt ring around it like other blowproofs, but it's 1/4" hydroformed and super heavy, it's not sfi but it'll contain a clutch explosion in my opinion. (if you're interested these are cheapest at CV Products $305.00, otherwise is about 375.00 everywhere else) , be aware that HH's adapter isn't big enough for the bellhousing. On the lower right, the bell is bigger and leaves a big open crescent shaped slot hanging open facing forward. I sent it back and got Wilcap's with aluminum flywheel, which he should be shipping today.

Pic below of HH's adapter. Pat's changed the profile of his adapter to fit the Sonic bellhousing.

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I ended up going with a T-56 with Viper guts behind mine. Wilcap provided the adapter. I will be doing an update on that soon with pictures.

 

I'm running an A833. My post about it is on the second page.

 

If anybody wants to see the complete information on using the Sonic bellhousing, the Wilcap adapter, Howe throwout, etc -- checkout another post that I did earlier. It has a ton of pictures and all the part numbers you'll need:

Link:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107758

I'll be fabbing everything in the frame in the next 2 months -- will update the post with more info at that time.

 

TTT,
After reading thru the Hemi Tech pages I still have a few questions on the adapters. Has anyone here used a Ford T5 to early 331 extended bell? (Wilcap adapter) If so, how did it work out for you? My 331 will just be a low HP driver and would like to have the 5 speed for long highway drives.

Will any year of the Mustang T5's work? How about the S10 T5? or Camaro T5? I searched and read all I could but didnt find the info I needed. Sent Wilcap an email as I didnt see an adapter for S10 T5 to 331 ext bell (I already have the s10 T5) If it's not going to work I'll keep looking for the Ford unit.

Any input is apreciated.

Geoff.

 

Pat (at Wilcap) will definitely have the answer for you. He's SUPER busy, so be patient.

You shouldn't have any problem with that adaptation. From talking to Pat about my T56 adaptation I came to the conclusion that using a hydraulic T/O bearing is the way to go over a mechanical T/O with fork because the bell would have to be cut/modified. The early 331's were not offered with a transmission that had a cluth... well not really anyway. They had the "safety clutch" HAH!

I actually used a T5 adapter mated to a T56 to T5 conversion kit. It should work great. I have to modify the plate that came with the T56, but it's not to major. Here's a very rough mock up not showing the lower bell, but it will give you an idea of what's possible... (I realize it's not what you're looking for)

 

I was just asked a very good question. What Mopar transmissions will bolt up to what Hemi WITHOUT an adapter. Specifically the extended bell 331's. I believe my father used a Dodge truck transmission behind his early 331 without an adapter, but that was years ago and last I asked the details were grey.

So what bolts up? How about 4-speed trannys?

 

scootermcrad, I like where your head is at. Would it be possible to hear a little more about this T56 conversion. What parts were used, what mods to adapters and such.

 

Okay, here's the scoop. The T56 is a standard F-body Tremec/Borg Warner transmission that has been built with Viper parts from RS Gear in NY (I think that's where they were). The trans was purchased as a GM T5 direct replacement and came with an adapter plate. Since the motor is an extended bell 331, the selection of adapters is somewhat limited, but thankfully Pat at Wilcap had the solution for me. He sells a GM T5 adapter for the early 331's. You see where this is going now...... Early 331 -> Wilcap GM T5 adapter -> T5 to T56 direct swap adapter -> T56 trans.

Okay. Now that all seems simple, right? There's a catch. The plate that comes with the transmission that allows a direct swap into a T5 position has a canted bolt hole pattern because a T5 sits at a funny angle. The T5 adapter that Wilcap sells has a straight (non canted) pattern. If I bolted the trans up to the adapter the way it sits now, the T56 would sit at the funny angle that the T5 did. I don't want that. Straight up and down is where I need to be. Especially with the space limitations I have in the Model A. I need to sit somewhere! So, I'm going to carefully mark the level position and pilot new holes in the T5 swap plate. Then I'll have a machine shop do the counter sinks so everything bolts up like it should. I haven't posted much on the transmission setup because I haven't had the work done to the plate and bolted everything up yet.

Here's some pictures to clarify what's going on...

As things sit out of the box:


Here's how the holes line up on with the adapter in place:


here's where they will be when I drill and countersink the T5 swap plate:


This will put the transmission in the "straight up" position.

Here's what the plate NEEDS to look like (backside view, bolted to bellhousing of another setup):


Here's another view of the "potential" setup


Those 4-holes are causing me a lot of troubles, but it's a simple fix... or so it seems. I will keep you guys posted on what happens.

 

I have a 54 non extended bell 331 INDUSTRIAL Engine.
It has a manual flywheel on it i have heard that the early ploy motors were the same and i can get a manual trans setup from one but it has to be removed and the person who owns the yard is a bit odd so i wont be able to remove it to try it once its out its mine. will this fit?

I have tryied on a late smallblock bell and it somewhat fits other than the lower bell bolts and the flywheel is to far away from starter with a spacer it appears it may work. will the factory trans spacer work for me?

would like to avoid the look of a adapter.

thanks JIM

 

Fit? probably. Survive? That's another story.

Check the following links out.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118607&highlight=hemi+tech

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166582&highlight=hemi+tech

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167674&highlight=hemi+tech

 

STARTERS!! Need to bump this up! We haven't talked about starters.... unless I'm missing it (which is entirely possible!). What starters are you guys running?? For those of you with extended bell 331's what are YOU running for a starter?? Are there other Mopar models that will fit on an extended bell?? (reminder... this doesn't mount to the adapter it mounts to the lower bell housing extended bell 331) Would be nice if there was a 12-volt direct bolt up that you could walk into any parts store and bolt up in a pinch.

So... UP UP for the topic of starters!

 

Doesn't help you Scooter, but on my short tail I'm running a 70s LA starter.

 

BTTT for this one. Come on extended bell peeps! What are you running for a starter?!

 

Holy cow! NOBODY is running an extended bell 331 with a 12-volt starter??????

 

Still need info on 12-volt starter interchangability for extended bell 331's. BTTT!!!!

 

Btt. I just got a 53 331 Hemi and need all the help I can get!!!

 

First off, I want to thank those who posted about my adapters. I dont get on this board often enough, I guess.
Just FYI, I do only adapters for short bell early hemis to SB Mopar standard and automatics. I felt there were enough options with the hemi to gm trans already, and being the "little guy", I opted to stay away from the extended bell adapter market.
I have spoken with Pat @ Wilcap in the past, as well as being friends with Bob @ Hot Heads. Both are great guys, and offer many more variations of adapters than myself. My goal was to offer one set of adapters, and do it well.
Again, I thank those who have posted about my products.

Tom Waters
[email protected]

 

I posted this in the regular section and didn't seem to generate any responses. I thought that maybe in the Hemi Tech it would get some action.

I have very limited experience with SBF bellhousings and cluch setups. What I have is a '56 Desoto Hemi with a Wilcap adapter setup to hook on a Tremec 5-speed Ford type trans. The Ford bellhousing, casting number D9ZC-6394BA, seems to be right to get between the Wilcap adapter and the new trans. I am using the Wilcap flywheel and a 10 1/2 inch diaphram pressure plate as instructed by the Wilcap install sheet. The problem is with the throwout fork. The pivot is on the passenger side and seems, to me, to be very long. From the heavy lockwasher to the tip of the pivot ball its around 2 1/16 inches long. The cast boss in the bellhousing that the pivot screws into is about 7/8 inches tall. With the lockwasher on, the fork will not clear the pressure plate at the ball. With the lockwasher removed it just clears. But not enough for my peace of mind. But there is still no way to get the throwout bearing in. It will not clear the diaphram fingers. It just will not go in. Do I have the wrong fork, no numbers on it? Are there different pivot balls? What's up??? Its late and I'm looking for some help. I will call Wilcap tomorrow. Any info? Billk