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anyone have ideas on how to turbocharge a Model T banger motor?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by powerwagonmaniac1, Feb 12, 2007.

  1. powerwagonmaniac1
    Joined: Mar 17, 2005
    Posts: 329

    powerwagonmaniac1
    Member
    from Aloha, OR

    Seriously ?!

    A couple fellow Model T guys In the Model T clubs are trying it. We are getting the info Hopefully from them.

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    Any other suggestion on turbos we could look for? I would like to find turbo off something like a Corvair or something readily availible. But we are open to newer cars as well.

    I also assume the turbo needs to be cooled and lubricate, suggestions on how that can be done would be appreciated.

    What would you guys suggest for carburation?

    What kind of boost ranges are we talking about?

    We are building this set-up for my freind Clayton '26 speedster he is building. The motor we are putting together is stock model t with babbitt bearings, '26-'27 crank, aluminum pistons, 3/4 race cam, lightened flywheel all madnets and magneto parts removed, 12 volt electrical system,distributor and splash oiling, Watt's clutch and bonded band lingings for transmission. Clayton's car will also be running a 3-speed Chicago overdrive transmission behind the stock 2-speed T tranny and 3:1 ring and pinion out back with Rocky Mountain large drum brakes on the rear axle and last but not least 4" lowering front and rear and '26-'27 wire wheels.

    We know it can be done just looking for some tips and advise on turbo charging a flat-head banger motor just for fun! I know you guys like the challenge of hopping up these old things so we are open to suggestions!!

    Thanks,
    Chris Becker

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  2. JimSibley
    Joined: Jan 21, 2004
    Posts: 3,848

    JimSibley
    Member

    Contact mike @ the antique auto ranch in spokane wa. he has one and it really moves. The number is 509 535 7789. tell him jim Sibley sent you.
     
  3. I know back when I was running T's the hot set ups included an A crank
     
  4. bcarlson
    Joined: Jul 21, 2005
    Posts: 935

    bcarlson
    Member

    The link below is not specific to Model T's, but has tons of great info on turbocharging in general. Despite being called TurboMustangs, there are all kinds of people doing Chevy, Chrysler, etc turbo projects.

    http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/

    Ben
     

  5. DIRTYT
    Joined: Oct 22, 2003
    Posts: 3,264

    DIRTYT
    Member
    from Warren,MI

    For that size engine i would look for something off of a eclipse or a talon. There good size turbos and should be right in your rpm range. IM sure you not going to be turning a lot of rpm so your going to want something that makes full boost by 2500 rpm or so.
    As far as cooling and what not goes. most are water cooled and lubricated with oil. you have a oil feed that is under pressure (i like to pick this up right at the oil guage sending unit) and then a return for the oil. just a return line going into the pan above the oil line will work. I dont normaly hook the coolent up on a retro fit set up but they do last longer with it. But i doubt your going to be daily driving this.

    Ive never done a blow thru system so carb wise your on your own there. but it is best to run it thru a intercooler. the heat created by compressing that much air is intense and most engines wont last long unless you cool the charge down. Just make sure you have enough fuel and you pull enough timming out and it will last and last.
     
  6. 6-71
    Joined: Sep 15, 2005
    Posts: 542

    6-71
    Member

    I dont have any details,but there is an old guy around here who has been running a corvair turbo on his model A roadster pickup for many years.His grandson also has a roadster powered by a turbocharged v8 60.He used a turbo off a chrysler 2.2 four cyl. those should be fairly easy to find in the boneyard.:D
     
  7. T-Time
    Joined: Jan 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,627

    T-Time
    Member
    from USA

    Just be careful who you ask about doing this. I asked this same question a few years ago on the MTFCA discussion board, and got kicked out of the MTFCA "fraternity" and was banned from the discussion board! I'd been a member of the MTFCA since the mid-70's. True story.:mad:
     
  8. Rex Schimmer
    Joined: Nov 17, 2006
    Posts: 743

    Rex Schimmer
    Member
    from Fulton, CA

    Don't forget the big steel box you mount below the oil pan to catch the crank and rods as they exit the block! With babitt bearings I would really not run more than 5 psi.

    Rex
     
  9. Deyomatic
    Joined: Apr 17, 2002
    Posts: 3,277

    Deyomatic
    Member
    from CT

    The suggestion of a Mitsubishi Eclipse or Eagle Talon turbo is a good one, but may be a bit too large for that application, from my experience full boost on the one I've owned and driven didn't really happen until about 2800+ RPM. Of course, full boost was in the 18 PSI range, so 5ish PSI on your banger might be around 2500. You can probably find a decent used one for around $150-$200.
    The turbos that Chrysler used in the 80s are a good option, too.
     
  10. You need to decide if you're gonna set it up in a blow-through or a draw-through configuration (carb after or before the turbo compressor outlet, respectively). I agree that you'll only wanna put a handful of psi boost on it, so you'll need a wastegate and use a bleeder valve to make it open at a lower pressure. With low boost you shouldn't need an intercooler. Most turbo people say the watercooling is only for after shutdown so the oil doesn't coke, and it's not necessary if you don't turn the engine off after being on it. You need an oil supply and return, usually to the oil pan on a retrofit. I'd think a small 4-banger turbo would be good. The Chysler ones are hard to get to behind the motor I believe, Probe or Mazda, an 87-8 Turbocoupe IHI (which you can rotate the housings relative to the center section and hook up the wastegate actuator moreso than some other turbos) maybe a Festiva or Suzuki Swift (3-banger?). You also need to make an exhaust manifold or figure out another way to mount the turbo.

    Thanks,
    Kurt
     
  11. draggin ass
    Joined: Jun 17, 2005
    Posts: 1,920

    draggin ass
    BANNED
    from hell

    it would be easier to just hook the turbo up to the belt and make a type of supercharger...... maybe? better rpms out of the fan??
     
  12. The first thing you are going to have to do is figure out an oil pump.
    And it wouldn't be a bad idea to pressurize the whole engine, or, at the very least, the bottom end.

    Turbochargers don't DO splash lube.

    Aluminum pistons, shell bearings, and a counterweighted crank will all help.

    Henry did use good vanadium steel in those engines, but you are aiming at a LOT more horses than design parameters.

    Find a distributor conversion, too, I feel the mag isn't going to be hot enough (or whatever those trembler coils are).

    Cosmo
     
  13. dehudso
    Joined: Sep 25, 2003
    Posts: 545

    dehudso
    Member

    wwww.forcedinductions.com has some good info as well.
     
  14. T-Time
    Joined: Jan 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,627

    T-Time
    Member
    from USA

    A big reason for a supercharger rather than a turbo.

    Absolutely correct. But, some of the aftermarket counterweights can actually CAUSE breakage. DO NOT use the modern repros. Some new ones are currently in design that promise to be better.

    No, a T mag will outperform a point type distributor (if you have good coils, i.e. rebuilt by Ron the Coilman, and good magnets)...maybe even an electronic distributor.
     
  15. what's with that rack and pinion steering ?
     
  16. tomslik
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 2,161

    tomslik
    Member

    for the oiling prob, how about a dry sump pump?
     
  17. This is just fascinating...I thought Model T's had only three main bearings. Will the the crank and main caps hold up under a Turbo??
    Not trying to steal your thread, just didn't think a T engine was that strong:confused: !
     
  18. powerwagonmaniac1
    Joined: Mar 17, 2005
    Posts: 329

    powerwagonmaniac1
    Member
    from Aloha, OR

    Hey Guys,

    We're only talking 4-5 lbs PSI and about 1500 - 2000 RPM at the max. Anything over that will grenade the motor.

    These guys are running a Dodge Daytona Turbo Charger and a modified NH Carborator. The second picture is a turbo charger off of a Subaru.

    The Rack and Pinion on my car is for safety reasons. I do not like the stock set-up as it can jump over center and bind up. The Rack is off of a 1990's Subaru. I also did not like the brakes, so I upgraded to disc brakes. My upgrades are for safety reasons only. All other modifications to chassis, suspension, engine, and drive train are all period corrector what would have been used in the 1920's or '30's.

    The fellow that built the motor with the turbo on it has already driven it forty miles. They are working out some minor bugs. It sounds like that it is built on a bone stock Model T engine with splash oiling and all. They have a seperate oil pump for just the turbo and they are going to plumb the turbo into the stock Model T cooling system.

    For fun check out the MTFCA (Model T Ford Club of America) forum. As this is where we got the idea. I have a feeling they might be open to some new ideas.

    The goal for us is to gain more horse power for climbing hills 'keeping up with traffic on our freeways, increasing responsiveness and just to be different.

    Model T engine are amazingly strong. The weakest link is the crankshaft. In the 1920's & early 30's there were blower set-ups I have seen for Model T engines with OHV & single overhead cam similar to Gullivan or Gemga Heads. I just don't have the funds for OHV & Model A cranks so I work with what I have.

    Model T motors only have three main bearings in the crank case. The 4th main bearing is in the tranny at the back where the driveshaft or in my case where my Warford bolts in. The 4th main in my motor and Clayton's and I are roller bearing instead of a babbit. I'll try to give Mike a call.

    Thanks, Chris Becker
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  19. Model A Vette
    Joined: Mar 8, 2002
    Posts: 1,075

    Model A Vette
    Member

    I don't like to rain on anyone's parade but just how are you going to hook up your steering wheel to the rack?
    I have no time with a stock "T" steering box but I think even a Vega box would be easier to hook up than a R&P hard mounted to a straight axle.
     
  20. powerwagonmaniac1
    Joined: Mar 17, 2005
    Posts: 329

    powerwagonmaniac1
    Member
    from Aloha, OR


    The kit I have seen installed use u- joint and a splined shaft and tube which allows the steering colum to slide. I'll probably use 2 u-joints in my set-up. I alreardy have splined shaft modiied to fit just have to finish it.

    Chris Becker[​IMG]

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  21. A kid here in Spokane built that car with the tubo on it, his name is mike, and the turbo is off of a Mercur (I think) He runs 1.5 pounds of boost, and says it will climb Argone Hill (pretty steep and long grade) doing 45 MPH. Pretty wicked for a stock T!!!
     
  22. 1930 turbo
    Joined: Sep 9, 2006
    Posts: 19

    1930 turbo
    Member
    from pa.

    I made the turbocharger set-ups that 6-71 mentioned in the above thread. The model B engine in the roadster pickup used a Corvair turbo and sidedraft Carter carb. No wastegate was needed, and it peaked at about 5lbs. boost. The V8-60 uses a Mitsubishi turbo blowing into a model 94 Ford 2bl. I made the wastegate on it adjustable ,and run 6lb. boost. We put pipe plugs in the turbos coolant holes, and it works fine. A turbo needs a good supply of clean oil, but be careful not to give it too much. An intercooler is not really needed till you get into higher boost,like over 10lbs. Liked the turbocharged T pictures, keep us posted on the project.
     
  23. 41 Dave
    Joined: May 23, 2005
    Posts: 2,594

    41 Dave
    Member

    Chris, Think you should beat this one around a little bit more . . . Still think that turbo "T" setup would make my Hill Climber a BEAST ! Oh, yeah I would do the "caveman" fab work ALA Zibo on this one . . . What could go wrong ?

    Dave
     
  24. cntrytruck
    Joined: Feb 16, 2015
    Posts: 7

    cntrytruck

    I'm working on model a engine with a subaru t03 turbo. Using a scavenge pump to help draw oil out of the turbo so the stock oil pump will not have to force the oil in.
     
  25. 55willys
    Joined: Dec 7, 2012
    Posts: 1,711

    55willys
    Member

    Have you ever read about ackerman angles in the steering? I would rather chance stock T steering over what you have there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackermann_steering_geometry
     
  26. I would go with a supercharger instead.
    IMHO better suited to a low rpm motor.
    Should be able to get boost right off idle.
    No waiting for the turbine to spool up.

    If you absolutely have to run a turbo, smaller is better.
     

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