Whats the deal with Ethanol

Could we use it? Your opinions needed.

 

Probably no, unless you distill cane sugar with electricity from your own hydro-electric or wind generator farm.

Ethanol is almost just slang anymore.

What are you talking about? Ethanol mixed with 90% or 15% gasoline, or Denatured Ethanol 110 proof (100% alcohol).

Still not cost effective until gasoline goes to about $4 a gallon average.

110 proof would be about 60 proof if you didn't seal the tank overnight (attracts water from the air).

 

Honestly its a huge freakin rip off. It costs far more to produce than gas and it doesn't have near the power potential gas has. Its heavily subsidized by the government or no one could afford it at all.

I was looking for a story I had read recently where some small towns voted to build a refinery and then found that they really didn't get any of the benefits they were promised. I'll post a link if I can find it.

 

But if "we" can produce it, it's a win, win situation.

 

Ive done a little research and found that many manufacturers of e10 and e85 say it causes hot handling problems in carberated applications, meaning it boils in the carb sitting over a hot manifold.
because you also get 35-40% less mpg, e85 must be at least that much cheaper to be cost effective

 

I don't have my notes handy, but I was very excited about alcohol as a fuel. I bought plans for a still that is approved by the BATF, checked into the permits, etc, looked at 200 gallon storage tanks, and how much corn I'd have to plant. But it all comes down to the energy required to boil the mash and distill the alcohol.

Here's my rule: if your car has a pressurized Moon tank, then alcohol may be a cost-effective fuel

 

Ethanol!
You boys have been watching to much neg media and as you know media knows nothing about technical things , actually nothing about anything.
Ethonal is alcohol made from grain (as opposed to methonal which is made from wood products.)
Ethonal burns for max power production at an AFR of approx 8.5 to 1. gasoline is about 12.7 to 1 and methonal is about 6 to 1. (Air fuel ratios by weight.) As you can see we need to burn a bit more ethonal than gasoline and a lot more methonal than gasoline. No, it does not make less power. An engine built for ethonal will make more power than a gasoline engine will. Right now we are running ethonal on engines made for gasoline with compression ratios of about 9 to 1. Ethonal can run with compression ratios upwards of 13 to 1 and maybe more. Engine Like say the 63 /64 MAX WEDGE Mopars are 13 to 1 and would probably with a little playing run fine on Ethonal. Once the compression is raised the the cold start thing is also history. That is just one of several reasons why an properly built ethonal engne willl make more power. Gasoline cant stand these ratios and certainly not the gasoline we have today except for Race gas which costs a lot more than 4 bucks a gallon. Once we raise the static compression ratio we can also run a lot more cam in the engine and still have decent manners .(There is a direct reationship between cam timing and compression ratios and that is one of the REAL speed secrets that gets forgotten. These two perameters are unavoidably linked)
Ever watch top alcohal funny cars? that is methonal but the effect with ethonal would be similar only not quite as powerful but still better than gasoline . Ethonal is basically moonshine with a poison added so it can't be drunk. Ethonal and methonal both as well as nitro methane are oxygen bearing fuels and carry some of their own oxygen. They tend not to be as sensitive to power loss from over rich conditions as gasoline although they do not like to be lean. The government likes it because it puts less toxins in the air and the theory is it adds oxygen. Also we can make as much as we want and the Arabs (or us Canadians who have the largest oil reserves in the whole world in the Tar sands, far far bigger than the Saudis or anyone)can choke on the oil cause it wont be necessary. It will take quite awhile but it is coming. I understand E85 (15 % gas /85% ethonal) can be bought in many states and even in a couple of large cities in Canada. So if we try to run our gasoline cars as they are on Ethonal, sure they wont quite work up to par BUT if we build real live hi compression ripsnorten Ethonal motors with big rauchy cams and all, we can now buy at the pumps fuel they will run great on and we can lie to ourselves how we are just enviromentaly minded at the same time. ME I think it is a golden oppourtunity to have some real serious fun
Don

 

DUDE- DRINK A 12 AND TRY TO MAKE SENSE OF WHAT YOU WROTE- ABSOLUTLY CANT BE DONE-

 

Approved oil-sands mining operations are already licensed to divert 349 million cubic metres of water per year from the Athabasca River.

This is approximately three times the volume of water required to meet the municipal needs of Calgary, a city of almost one million people, for one year.

Planned projects will increase water diversions to almost 500 million cubic metres of water per year, representing 10 per cent of the river’s winter low flow.

You guys will be exporting oil to us but won't have any forests, rivers, and lakes after 2030

 

Absolutely can be done. i taught engines electrical and fuel in provinical institute of trades for 7 years. Have devoted 35 plus years to engine building (drag racing, european road racing) as well automotive research and repair. I have seen a 6 cyl altered run in the Nine second range sponsored by a division of the Ontario Farmers coop running on Pure ethonal. I happen to understand what i am talking about. Ich bin kein luger!
Don

 

We are a bit bigger than you think you know. Alberta and Texas are the same size almost exactly and a Alberta is not what we would call a big provinvce. We would shut your tap off long before we got there.

 

Well there you go!

Ich habe einen Hunger für snitzle und Pommes-Frites

 

My question is, what do you do with all the dirty water?

 

Ja? Ich lieb spaetzle die besten!

 

this makes my brain hurt. my heart aches too when i think about the fact that this beautiful land of ours once sustained life, culture and balance....once. now it's all about money. period. our environment is fucked and all the rest of it. I really feel bad about bringing my kids into this world sometimes. what a frickin' mess that's been handed to them. Bottom line: Those that came here learned NOTHING from those that were already here and never will.

 

das ist sehr gut!

mmmph, mmmmph, ssspppaaaeettttzzzllle!

 

Sseriously LL I dont know a lot about the tar sands project. I know they are working hard to reclaim the land and reforest is as they go. I heard how they were cleaning the water on a Discovery channel type TV show or something a few months ago. I only know that up here you cant sneeze without someone from Enviorment Canada on your back so i assume and i might be wrong that they are being watched pretty close. I have avoided investing in the Tar Sands Oil Companies because i somehow always worried that the bubble would burst. Oil must stay about I think $30 per barrel to make it worthwhile doing and it was only a couple of years ago it was at $11 then $21. I figure it could go back there since there is really no good reason for it to be where it is today so as proud as I am that we have this wonderful find I am not real comforatable with it long term as I guess others also think the same for maybe different reasons. I dont really know what to think for sure. There has been a lot o TV about it this week. Still if the price of oil fell it would be done like dinner in a New York minute. At least that is what i think about it for what it is worth.

 

How would one run ethanol in say a Ford flathead or a sbc? what engine/carburetor mods would be needed to run ethanol at a high percentage?

 

Alky kits for carbs are readliy availabe but they are probably made with methonal in mind so the jets would be bigger than needed. Everything else though would be ok. Alcohols are corrosive compared to gasoline and so some carb parts are different ie steel needles are often used. i see in Jegs catolog that Quick Fuel to name one has alky conversion kits for Holleys . Stromberg 94s used to be often used for alky so i am guesing that stuff is still available. for jetting I can only tell you how i would do it. I would figure out the % difference in AFR with my caculator then take the higher percentage and multiply that by the jet size. That would get me in the ball park. I would error on the rich side since that wont hurt anything and as i tell my guys when we are floging a new set up if you have your foot in it it it start even for a second to feel soft get out off it right then. Then we go back and recheck our calculations. it will take some fiddling but anything outside the box always does. However in a very short time you will have it sorted out and file the info in your "been there done that" bank. The first article i read on Ethonal was in a book that Motors Manuals gave to some of us techs in the seventies when we ordered certain manuals. I still have it here somewhere. It was a big brown book called Auto engines and Electrical Systems. It seems to me it even gave the calorific values of the variuos fuel I talked about before.
It is because of a lower number of calories that we must burn more ethonal than gasoline to make the power but because of the propeties of ethonal we can burn a lot more of it so we can in the end have more calories fuel being burnt.
gasoline for example has less calories than diesel fuel but can make more power cause we can burn it fast enough the we can have more calories burnt in the same time frame. if we extend that to the ridiculous which often helps understand it. Wood apparently has more calories than diesel fuel but we cant burn it fast enough to make use of the extra calories.(obviously)
Ethonal has a very high octane rating hence its ability to stand a much higher compression ratio than gasoline. That is the quality we need to take advantage of. As soon as I can get some E 85 here I am going to try it in my 63 Dodge Max Wedge even though it is only the 11 to 1 engine. With any alcohal based fuel crankcase venting should be good (PCV valve)at least and engine temp should be higher say 180 to 185 stat.

 

The 348 in my Touring loves E85

 

ethanol is made so farmers have place to sell their corn...the biggest rip off of all time

i watched a farmer plow his field yesterday..lot's of corn stalks turning under....is that diesel he burnt factored in ?


the way i look at it , the government is forcing ME to buy their corn..and i don't want it

i think the congress should pass a law that EVERY us resident should buy my product , wether they want it or not

 

Nope, but neither is the Navy, Army, Air Force factored into the cost of transporting crude over the high seas. It's a subsidy paid through taxes and the defecit IOU's.

 

I no it's not a car, but my buddy is running E-85 in his dirt bike. All he did was rebuild the carb for alcohol and increased the jet size by roughly 10%. And the bike runs great. There are a lot of guys running E-85 through carbs on there cars. Just do a search for E-85 and carbs on google.

 

TinMan ,Did you have any trouble running it in your 348 or did it run well as is?


yes the plowing and seeding and fertilizer costs are factored in. Corn is sold by the bushel or tonne (metric tonne) and can run anywhere from 90 to 225 Canadian per metric tonne. Currently it at the low end. The farmer can make decent money at above $155 and real good when it tops $200 . I have heard the silage can also be used to make ethonal.
Corn costs used to be about $90 per acre and it is probably much highrr now, maybe $135. Iowa can get huge returns off an acre and even here we get reasonable returns although our kernel size is smaller. And no the govenrment at least ours is not subsidizing the farmer to plow or plant. Here they do no till which cuts fuel costs per acre way down.
yes i have grown corn and bought a lot of it. I fed cattle for a while to ease my stressful life. I fed them whole corn and tenderlean. very lean tender beef.

 

I run it in my e85 approved mini van. It smells like a martini when you start it in the morning.

 

What is a ripple blocker?

 

I have a holly 650 on a 305g and I get backfire now and again. Increasing jet size by 10% is the answer? Timing is correct.

 

Oh Sorry my age is showing. When they were in their heyday we always referred to the 348 409 series as Ripple blocks because they had the W shaped valve covers. I learned that from my chev friends (both of them ) in my mispent youth. I took it out cause i realized it was a dated reference that might now be meaningless. Sorry. Sort of like a 318 is a Poly, a 392 Hemi was a whale motor, the 426 hemi was an elephant. The sbchevy a mouse cause the BB Chey was a rat motor. I still know people who use these in everyday conversation really.
Don

 

E-10 is the only fuel available at many of the stations in small towns in this area and it works fine in my 32 Ford sedan with SBC and Edelbrock carb. There are so many very large ethanol plants being built in the state you can't count them. It is a fact of life like it or not.

 

Unless you plan to stop driving altogether, I don't think we really have a choice (besides biodiesel). I'd rather pay a little more for a renewable, home-grown fuel than Middle Eastern oil.