Well i was flipping through the local want ads and came across and add that caught my eye. This guy is selling a complete minus heads '61 413 wedge motor. Was machined and is ready to go back together. He has the rebuild kit for it and a new cam. He's asking $625. Is that a deal or something to pass on. Thinking it would be worth more since the early 426 was based on those blocks, right? Thanks, John
IF the machine work was done right, and IF the rebuild kit and cam are good quality stuff, it sounds like a pretty fair deal to me.
Thats alot of "IF"'s. A 413 isnt anything special. It could be out of a dump truck for all you know. The only 413's that are worth more are the "Max Wedge" ones that came out in '62. He might have cheap,low CR, cast rebuilder pistons in there...because there isnt much choice for pistions for the 413. For that kinda coin I'ed look for a steal crank 440 if you where looking for a BB mopar.That way you will have 100 times the piston choice. With out looking at casting numbers all the RB's (383rb,413,426w,440) look the same on the outside.
give the 413 some credit. any 413 is a good foundation even if it isnt a max wedge. if its bona fide id look into it.
For a FNG he knows what he is talking about I love all things Mopar but 413's are not where to start with your project .. find a 400 make a stroker with a 440 crank (451 cubes) or find a 440 ..still out there, I find them complete still for around 500 bucks depending on Happy Halloween
I have to agree with som of all this...413 parts can be harder to come by than most other BB engine parts But also dont sell it short the moter is tough as nails and can hand a lot the also produce alot of torche if i rememeber right 500ftpd at 2400 RPM which will rip you off the line real decent....another consideration is they didnt make 400 & 440s in 64 and below so if your wanting to build a rod thats out of 64 and below components a 413 is good and not often used motor plz correct me if im wrong anyone Cyric
Here is some food for thought. The only thing usable is the block, A 61 engine still had the flat crank flange for the old cast iron torqueflight torque congerter (No flex plate, bolted directly to the crank. ) In 62 all motors were changed to the stepped flange with the centering ring for the flex plate and threaded holes for the flex plate bolts so first you have to ask yerself if i need a newer crank (440 will work) if I should change the rods (413s were not as good as later rods) If I have to buy everything else why am I doing this. Me and i am a big bbmopar guy, i would be hard pressed to part with $100 for a pre 62 block. The 400 which I have built all the way from 400 cubes to 460 including my latest at 426 cubes is a much better buy and a 440 is a no brainer even at the same price of $625 . As to 400 , we have built two streetable versions that produced in excess of 500 HP at 400 cubes , one was at 9.6 to1 compression. They are i believe even in the stock 400 cube setup the most underated engine n the mopar family. I was shocked at what we got out of them with moderate parts and cost. Don
Thanks for all the great info guys. I guess ill look into it and let you know the details of it. Thanks, John
Post some info on the 500+ horse 400's! I am looking at building a 470ci 400 based motor in the near future.
I'd just ignore it, unless you can bargain it down quite a bit. 413s are dime a dozen- the Demo derby guys can barely get rid of them (lots of Imperials have them). IMHO, a 383 is a better start, just because of parts availability. 413s aren't bad engines, per se, but as a performance foundation, look elsewhere.
Pass on it and look for a 440. You can probably find a decent one in a 1970's land barge and have more choice in parts.
Oh no .. we are date coding hot rods now ?? Paint it "turq-wise" call it a 361 99.9% of the experts will never ever know what year it was produced 413's are good motors ,,,,for dump trucks --
Here, just go for ride http://www.olympia-charger.com/2006/07/dolmetsch_built.html RR from DD Engine had 408 rear wheel Hp at 5550 RPM and still had 407 HP at 6240. Using a best and worse case senario it is at least 485 HP and no more than 512 HP at the engine. It was tested in Germany on a certified Chassis Dyno. It is a 9.6 to 1 comp 400 bored 030" with stock stroke (hard chromed steel crank(383 core) so is still a 400. The cam is my own private grind and is a hydraulic with single springs (Mopar Performance) with stock stamped steel rockers. It has an 800 CFM holley reworked by yours truly mounted on a Holley Street Dominator intake. heat riser passage is blocked. The oil pan is a wing type pan with no hang down but holding 7 US qts. it has a windage tray and a roller timing chain of the sealed power /TRW replacement variety. The timing gear has been double pinned. The heads are 452 Motor home castings and have been ported severely to induce intake port swirl which stabalizes air flow. They have been brought to 83 ccs . head gaskets are felpro blue. Valves are 2.14 /181 stainless. Exhaust valves are also coated. Please note this is NOT a stroker. it is an actual 400. Pistons were custom made for me by Ross pistons and are forged. Rings are Hasting low tension racing rings Don
Don't think for one 2nd that later model 440's were not "as good" This is a very common mistake Yes, we all would like to use a HP block from late 60's or early 70's Mopar But, for most projects ANY 440 block is fine Steel cranks are better for high horse power aplications but the cast cranks have been proven, over and over to withstand 550 hp -- The best heads for street use that have the hardened seats , the number ends in 452 --You find this number under the valve cover, under rocker shaft on top of port The later ones were low CR but most people would replace pistons at least I THINK most people would ??
Indeed. Later 440's are actually a little 'better/stronger' because of the extra re-enforcement ribs on the sides of the engine. If only a piston-company like KeithBlack/Silvolite who would start making and stocking an affordable 10:1cr performance piston for these 413 engines, this engine-type could be performer aswell. I think they could sell quite a number of them.
No not date Coding, But there is somthing in saying it is a 361, 413, or [SIZE=-1]Chrysler [/SIZE]350, when every other mopar guy wants a 440, 383 or 400 340.. some peope just want somthing a bit diffrent from the rest of the flock And i must state this while the 413 and 361 along with 440 and 383 for that matter where thrown in everything from Winnibagos to dump truck up until at least the late 70s... the guys in 61 & 62 when the 413 was the highest horsepower motor in production where wishing they could Catch that "dump truck" Yes it was superceaded by the 426 (which was a based on a 413 block bored .70) and 440.....im by no means saying it is the best motor out there dodge wise, But its worth of some respect & at least its not a SBC hes wanting to use
I agree 100% a 413 of any vintage is better than a sbc But early 413's compared to a 440, well there is no comparison I'm just being honest about value, etc on it . Don't get me wrong, for me its Mopar or no car
Herm , This has to be you , my NL mopar buddy! Havent seen ya since our coffee in Leiden. Kanter btw has 413 pistons Don
1976 (maybe later '75???) will have the 452's. Like the '906's they are open chamber. The early mopar heads where closed. Thats the bigest thing to watch out for with the heads. Yes the later 440s are real low CR. The '78 block I built for my super-wana-bee came with pistions that where 1/8" down in the hole. I think they blue print at 8.1CR but are prob more like 7.5cr. People also say the later blocks are better do to chrysler getting the casting mastered. There is less core shift. I would think the LY rods would be an issue long before the cast crank. Im running both in my 10:1 quench 440 and i guess I will find out I got the long block (running) for FREE because the guy who was junking the car said the motor was worthless because it was "smogger thin wall" block
True for most part , lots of bad info on them out there we built a 440 out of basic old stock stuff .. set of pistons, the then "509" Mopar cam put it in a 1963 Plymouth , Clicked off 12teens all day long By my math, that should be around 520 horse We built it long time ago .1984 and it is still making passes heads have never been off motor (that I know of) I could only guess how man runs are on it --I'm sure at least 1000? 20 years of running it --waaaammppaaa !!
John, I have a 61 413 Golden Lion froma New Yorker that I need to sell. Supposed to have 59,000 miles. Do a search in the HAMB For Sale section for "Golden Lion" and you will find it. Thanks, Vinnie
Hi Don, yes it's me.. I've got two 413's who could use an overhaul, one in my '62 NY-Wagon, the other is from my '64 NewYorker Salon. But I'm not the kinda guy who wants to build engines with 'stockish' parts... Therefore I'm still hoping KB/Silvolite would start producing tightfit/lighterweigth pistons for that 'forgotten' Mopar bigblock one of these days. I've mailed them about that about a year ago and they said they don't have any plans for that unfortunatly.
Good to talk Herman. You mean using Hypereutechtics ? That would be nice. I did a Hypereu 440 like my Old Reliable build for a guy in Bloomfield. 64 Dodge. Used the CAT press fit rods and Hypereutechtics. It is a real nice working piece. i would try it again. It is unfortunately really hard to get 413 or 426 pistons , even stockers for that matter. I got my '26 pistons from Mazolini in Calif but last time i sent someone there they were out. He had JE make several sets for him of forged. Most of those manufacturers will make anything but it costs about $1050 Canadian everytime. I have used Ross a few times. Still those are lightweight but not the hypereutectic you want. Maybe you will have to make your own. have you seen the movie Worlds Fastest Indian? He starts casting a piston. I know its crazy but i keep thinking it would be fun. You know me. Always looking for adventure. Don
With all the time-demanding projects I've got laying around in my garage I really don't think I want to start and try making my own pistons... I have been doing a little poking around in the KB-catalog to see if there would be other pistons ment for different car-brands which would be in the same bore-range and comp.height. There's an AMC-piston that comes close I recall, but still nothing that fits the bill.
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