Venting on Hot Rodding's future

I was thinking about this the other day and its still on my mind...

I'm a young guy (24 to be exact) that has been into rods since I was a wee youngin' thanks to family and friends that introduced me to this vast automotive subculture at a very young age. I was bringing Popular Hot Rodding magazines to Elementary school when everyone else was looking at MASK comic books... most people thought that was wierd, but whatever. I remember at around 8 years old getting confused between a DART heads advertisement and a Dodge Dart... haha.

Over the years I followed my dreams and now run a small rod shop that is growing bigger and bigger by the day. I have always been into late 50's and early 60's cars because they were the most practical cars for me at a such a young age. My first running car was a 56 Chevy 235/ 3on the tree driver when i was 15. My dad thought I was crazy for buying that instead of a 'practical' car. Ha did I prove them wrong driving it daily and fixing what needed to be fixed to keep her running. I'm still into early 60's watson styled cars, I found my 'niche' in the automotive world. Not to say i don't want a 55 Chevy Gasser....

Anyways, what i've been noticing lately is that hot rodding is changing with the times. Tractor parts are becoming a normal thing, people are getting really innovative when building cars, and there is a whole new approch to building a cool car. Wagons, 4 doors, and later models are starting to get the respect and cool factor they never had.

What is the next step for hot roddings future? Where is this all taking us? Cars are still abundant, but pricing is getting crazy. Not everyone can afford that 32 Ford, or even that 2 door hardtop 60's car thanks to Barrett Jackson and TV- everyone thinks their junk is worth a mint. It's even getting harder trying to find a descent 350 for cheap, let alone a Y block ford or a baby Hemi. So the next logical step is to move to something else right? What scares me, is the thought of later iron become the next big thing. Big 75 Monacos all slammed & chopped? Dare i say Imports??

I'm scared. Anyone else think about these things or am i just paranoid?

 

I think that you have legit concerns, and observations as to the wave of change in rods. I think that is one of the biggest reasons for my love of "traditonal" rods and customs. "Hot Rods" per se have always evolved with the times. During the 80's you had Pink scalloped open wheeled rods that caused a trend of sorts. You have had the over use of Tweed interiors in anything that held the descriptor of "Street Rod". And you/we have seen an abusive use of billet and over sized wheels on everything and anything that they can be forced onto. Yes, as time goes on, prices of "real" cars will go up. There are just going to be less and less out there. As far as trends of styles go, it really will just be up to the individual and his/her taste. I know that I can find just about any part, with a little searching. Some parts require more searching than other obviously, but they are still out there. Just my opinion, but I don't like ceartain trends, so I choose not to support them. But then again, I don't have a automotive shop as you do...
Me,.. I am not scared, as you stated. I know that places like the H.A.M.B. will always support the style that I like. Traditional rods..

 

I don't think its going to be about import vehicles but wait until somebody figures a way to adapt a Honda VTEC variable event valve mechanism to vintage American engines.

Thats going to make huge power and still be manageable on the street.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I bet that guys back in the 30's and 40's had the same fears bro.....

 

That's because as prices for the 'more desirable' stuff continue to rise, guys seek out the cars they can afford and making them cool. I'm not talking about 'ratrodding' an S10 but lately I've seen a lot more long roofs, more doors and oddball models made into cool rides.

I think it's cool.

 

well I'm on the other end of the age ladder 64 to be exact and I can tell you that this and everything else runs in 20 year cycles. and the real rodders such as myself just stay in one spot and do our thing and every other deckade we end up main stream again.
the good part is when the posers get tired of playing cars they start dumping shit cheap and I'll be here doing what I've always done!
that old saying "the wind blew and the shit flew, I was here where were you" where you are 5-10 years down the road when it's just us hardcore rodders are cleaning out garages and shops for cheap.
and just keep in mind that us old fucks keep dying off and our kids don't give a shit about our treasures and need to dump our whoard (sometimes to the dump) so they can split the cash after selling the farm.

 

I have to agree with ya there. People want the old stuff, but what was always the "hot coon" is now priced out of reach of most folks, so people are getting creative.

I'm all for variety.... but I sure am going to hate the day when it all transitions to 70's and 80's stuff. That's just NEVER been my cup of Jack Daniels.

 

AMEN. These rich jackasses have tanked their money in the stock market, so now they've infiltrated the car scene.(for now) until they find something else to entertain themselves with. But, for now they're here just long enough to price these cars out of the reach of us enthusiasts that enjoy driving these cars.

 

For some reason, the domestics are going for "cylinder deactivation" as opposed to Variable Valve Timing. It seems like a less clever solution to me. But sometimes less clever ain't such a bad thing. I have thought about an aftermarket cylinder deactivation unit (I'm sure it has already been done) that would piggy back on the ignition system. The World loves their cars and they will not go away completely. Even if gas goes to $10/gallon, somebody's still going to buy it to put in their Sunday driver.

Anyway, Graverobber, I have had the same thoughts and I've come to the conclusion that pretty much anything made newer than mid-60's was not designed for longevity- both in form and function. Everything is very trendy and cheap. Look at me, I lust after cars that were built before I was born. In theory, I should be making my high school dreams come true by building up a early-90's 5.0 Mustang GT ragtop or a Mitsubishi Conquest- but those cars are ugly and dumb.

Blame it on technology and greed for our ever improving ability to crank out barely sufficient quality goods at the most minimum of costs. Or blame it on us for living the disposable lifestyle.

 

I read that there are a few key factors for the crazy prices for old cars.

1.) Loan Rates -cheap home equity loans and the like
2.) Media -the proliferation of car shows, Barrett Jackson on TV, etc.
3.) Death -Baby Boomers inheriting money -a lot of money.
4.) Fuel prices -ironically a lot of people think it's now or never to enjoy that 9 mpg Hemi.

There are some pretty cool early seventies cars that have been mostly untouched by rodders like the 1970 Imperial. One of these chopped, slammed, and shaved would make a really BADD sled. As for the '75 Cordoba - I hope I don't live to see that day.

 

Just an old guys opinion....
Several factors came together to form the basis for "hot rods"
1st was a desire for more performance
2nd was a desire for something individualized
3rd and maybe first, was a lack of money.
Personally, I was a hot rodder in the 50's - 32 Ford pickup with an Olds engine. 52 Ford convert tail dragger with a 352 that I never got right, etc. But in the 60's I had the money to make choices. 63 chevy 327 4 speed posi. 65 Vette, 68 firebird, 69 vette 350/350. Detroit offered performance and individuality, without living in the shop. I'm back into hot rods as a hobby cause I have the time , enjoy the challenges of fabrication, modification and upgrading and just love the personality and character of old cars that is gone from todays crap. But too many boomers are into "hot rods" via the checkbook. Talked to several guys last week who were checking out my 41 poncho. They were polite, but unimpressed. Their cars were professionally built, by others, and cost well over 50k each. One had a 20k paint job.
To me, these guys aren't hot rodders, but they have run prices through the roof and spotlighted all the attention on "show cars".
So, what does a young guy with creativey, desire and limited funds do today to create the next gen of hot rods? It will probably be something none of us understand or appreciate. Ricers? pickups? SUV's? 80's detroit crap? Whatever it is, they have to be cheap to buy, (I put pickups and suv's in there cause the gas prices may slam the price of used ones), used parts need to be cheap and plentiful and they need to lend themselves to upgrades and mods. With ricers spending 20 - 30 k on engine upgrades and a ton of aftermarket bolt on body crap, I'd lean towards the pathetic 80's detroit junk. Lord knows they can be upgraded.

 

Very true, just as there were thousands of people in the early '50s that were sure that the world was going to end any minute now.....and I just spoke to one of their descendants at the parts counter today. When gas soared to .60 a gallon in the mid '70s, many thought that hot rodding in any form was dead, never to return. I'm old enough to have bitching rights when the conversation turns to what everything USED to cost, but in the end, it's nonproductive. Do what you've got to do to stay happy in your hobby. Believe it or not, crate motors are not the only way to power a rod--get back to basics, and you may be surprised how affordable it can be.

 

great perspective here! You're right. Let all these trend whores dig up all the parts we're looking for, do all the legwork, etc., then dump that stuff cheap for the core rodders. I've noticed the last few years people saying all the time to me "yeah, so are you going to "rat rod" your car? That's the new trend" Trend? This usually comes from old street rod guys ready to jump on the next bandwagon. Just wait it out and the good cars will all be pulled out of barns ready for a buyer just as jet cars make a big splash

 

ok, here's another youngins (26) take on what's going on.

these guys who have 50K+ streetrods, dueces, whatever look at the cars as two things- art and an investment. they know that they can unload pretty much at any time to some other loaded yuppy and make it out ok, maybe turn a profit, maybe only take a marginal hit. When I go to a show, I don't even mind these cars. I will seek out the cars I know were built by the owners, looking for innovation on how to use parts differently, moving something to where it hasn't been before. that's the real deal.

I've only been into American steel for a short while now, came from the Volkswagen world, still very active over there as well. I like cars, period. I may be new to this scene but I've been into cars as long as I can remember and hope to be for a very long time. I like the idea of being able to turn your own wrench and as time moves on it is becoming more and more difficult to do so with elaborate on baord computer systems and emissions requirements. I consider myself pretty far out there when it comes to ideas on what I plan on doing in the next couple years, I'm still learning so it's going to take some time, and I'm sure I'm going to piss off some old purists but I'm sure those old purists pissed off their old purists back in the day. and what do we call this, progress.

 

I'd rather see a well thought out and nicely crafted slammed '75 Monaco over the more common practice of buying a stock beater 1956 whatever and driving it to shows with greased hair and waving the flag of "traditional".

The key is to do the best you can to understand what and why you're doing it and follow your vision. Details make all the difference.

I will always champion the guy that's willing to take a chance to build something awesome out of something that the rest of the world thinks should be in a landfill. I think some 70s cars have tremendous potential as customs/lowriders.

 

Some thoughts from another,"old fart":

At the risk of starting a veritable shit storm,I think ,"hot rodding"is progressing rather nicely.It has always been about modifying a vehicle to look like soimething either more expensive and/or faster and accomplishing this with a minimal cash outlay.

There were always the so-called,"gold chainers"(a term I dislike very much)whether they were movie stars or rich people or rich people's kids.The average person I think was a bit envious of them and the one way he believed he could compete or best them was to build a faster or more impressive looking car.I think that mindset still prevails today.

The one thing about life is that it is in a constant state of flux;that is:it is changing constantly as society changes whether it is perceived to be good or bad.Some of the things that I did as a kid I can't believe I did.

For example;wearing a beat-up leather motorcycle jacket and greasy Levis with engineer boots and actually putting VASELINE in my hair to keep it in place! Were we trying to tell people how badass we thought we were?

Sorry I'm getting off track.

Anyway it seems the early "hot rods"(another much maligned and mis-used term)were either built for speed(to blow the doors off the rich guy's car)or decorated with all imaginable items to make it look expensive and one-up the other guy.

In the 50's and early 60's it was essentially the same thing only now another factor was added:the car built expressly for,"show" purposes only.Actually driving one wasn't considered an option and the one-upsmanship continued only on a larger scale.I think it also may have been a desire to upstage the factories with their so-called,"dream cars".

Then the 60's saw a rise in the popularity of ,"muscle cars" in which all you needed to do was have a big enough bank account and you could go down to your friendly car dealer and buy just about any amount of horsepower.The hot rods still persisted only not as much now.There were still traditionalists building cars but they were a distinct minority.

The 70's were a decade I'm still trying to decipher.The hot rodding movement was taking some really strange directions with the advent of pastel colors and tweed interiors.Vans were seen to be a coming thing and thankfully died a quick death.It seemed that the earlier generation of so-called,"hot-rodders"(the rich ones anyway)were getting richer as their waistlines were getting larger and they wanted the comforts of a new car in their old cars.This carried over into the 80's as well.

Then came the imports and suddenly it seemed that a new generation of "hot rodders" was beginning.At first it was modify the hell out of the engine and don't give a shit what the outside looked like.But then all the people who had for years been selling what the people seemed to want saw a new business area opening up and they started turning out all these body modification kits that did very little(and usually the opposite)for looks or performance of a car.

Somewhere along the way we saw the rise of the so-called,"traditional"hot rodder reborn again.Unfortunately much of this so-called traditionalism is nothing more than a caricature of what it was really like.

Cars of that era were NOT made to deliberately look like shitboxes.They were NOT groundscrapingly low and they were rarely rusting out everywhere. Granted there are some really fine examples of what a,"traditional"car should look like but I would be willing to wager that very few of them are affordable to the average person today.

My reason for ranting on and on is simple:I LIKE cars! ALL types of cars whether they be flawlessly restored classics,customs,hot rods,low riders,trucks,tuner cars,and virtually any other wheeled vehicle. I may not like a particular rendering of the vehicle but I can appreciate the work that went into it.

As to the original question:Where is hotrodding headed? I don't have a clue but I think I'm going to stay on for the journey.

 

i am 24 also and working on trying to start a shop.
i'll start this off by saying...i dont like cars. in general thats my opinion of the 4 wheeled rolling machines. i USE a car to get to work and i USE a truck to pick-up heavy parts. but i dont care for them. they're new, ugly, overengineered, etc. they are not my cup of tea. but also i dont like muscle cars, 60's cars, gassers,wild painted custom cars.
bascally i like what i like..its more of a point in history that i like then it is an automobile
...and thats pretty much narrowed down to a style based before 1950....nothing wrong with anything else...to each their own..but thats me
I've gone so far as to where if I want to build a "REAL" hot rod its going to be a roadster and thats it...final word...the end
i will defonitely pay more money for a part thats exactly what i want. unfortunately most everyone else wants that same highly desirable part therfore the seller can demand and get a higher price...but I'll pay it, you'll pay it, we'll all pay it if its what we want.
its only money and money is easier to come by then old ford parts
i think in the 30's/40's it wasnt like today. there wasnt a basis on historic value so "screwing up" old cars wasnt so much of a concern
its like if someone now got upset because some kid lowered his 94 honda civic...those cars are considered a used car now days. just like a model-t or model-A was in the 30's/40's they were a used old car that was plentiful and cheap. just like today when someone builds a car thats not as desirable...its available and cheap...i guess thats the real "hot rod" mentality....find a car hop it up and GOW.
i think most of us that claim to be "hot rodders" are more of hot rod historians. if we were real "hot rodders" we would be building mustangs and import cars...and then we wouldnt have a fear in the world when it came to running out of "good" parts. new parts would be a godsend to more speed and the old parts would get scrapped.

so all in all in the end...yep, im scared too...scared of the day when i cant find any more flatheads.

a smile on your face and your foot to the floor is more important then a thick wallet....spend the money and build what makes you happy
thats my 1.5¢
Zach

 

The future some of you guys fear is already here, well it is over in Europe, our gas is already way more expensive than yours and the chances of finding something useful for an early car in a scrap yard is pretty remote if not non-existent. But rodding in the UK is probably healthier at the moment than at any time before at both ends of the scale, expensive cars are being built in pro shops and cool new home built stuff is turning up with every run or show.

I'm sure other Brits on here will back me up or take a look at the 'Hot Rod Drags' pics posted elsewhere, but it boils down to where there is a will there is a way, so don't panic just yet.

L.P.

 

unbelievably great post, graverobber63. thank you for your insight NONAME, rasputin, Safariknut and all.

i wonder about this myself (being new to the game). i just had an awakenning yesterday at work when a new kid insisted on showing me his "tuner" wetdream on the web and how much power it makes and on and on and on (i struggled not to comment when he demanded i listen to an audio file of the exhaust note of this...car). . he told me he swapped an Integra engine into his own civic and i wondered if he knew about kids his age doin the same thing to their rides 40,50,60yrs ago (and, no, he didn't know).

i try real hard to have respect for anyone workin on cars (even tuners) but its hard. even if they don't realize it, i know they are direct descendants of those guys (many on this board) who dropped or customized their cars after WWII in L.A., or drag raced in the 60's, or built cars to break landspeed records on the saltflats. maybe my ride ain't as cool as others, but its about keeping something "alive" and realizing you're part of something bigger than yourself. i like the brotherhood and comraderie i've experienced...welcoming a stranger from outta state who's in your town is common (thanks to HAMB). the "tuner" kids view each other as rivals one and all and would just as soon kill you or themselves trying race.

what was the original question? oh...personally, i'm shocked at the price of genuine, traditional car parts and, yes, that will likely keep me from building the high-end stuff (model A, Flatheads, etc). that will likely not, however, keep me from hangin out w/my friends, drinkin beer and messin' with something in the garage on the weekends.

 

my 2-cents:
I am currenty watching this all happen right in front of me. I have a 13yr old boy that is getting the bug (thx to me and my 54). He started out likin the import tuners, then the high$ european Ferraris/Lambos etc. then guess what happened...........Ford released the new style Mustang.........he loves that car, rolls down the windows to listen etc..... all of a sudden the import mags are in the trash my "grease mags" keep leaving the shop. TIVO is filled with shows like "Hot Rod" (yes I hate Boyd too!), Overhaulin, etc..........
Pinks is his alltime favorite, hates the nitrous boys...........etc.. and most impotantly for me thinks 5" can muffler tips look like sh-t!
the generation is a changin! I,m gonna help, wait till he sees the 54 4" in the air!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Why can't we all just get along? I truly enjoy cars and most of the people I meet through the hobby. It just really depresses me when I hear so much about people trying to classify the car or the person. I build what I want how I want and anybody that has an opinion (other than sharing a trick or technique with me) can all F$%$ off. I have a 100+K 62 corvette resto-rod with modern drive train sitting next to a 31 coupe chopped and channeled If you don't like my car then don't talk to me... as for the future it will be the same as the past people are going to do the most they can based on their individual budgets, talents and tastes and thats all good by me......

 

VERY WELL SAID!

 

I like cars, I guess I am what you consider a car enthusiast. Import, domestic, car, truck new, old... whatever I can appreciate it with a few exceptions here and there.

I started out in aircooled VWs and had a blast, moved to minitrucks then as time went by I got into tuners (didn't enjoy it so much), now I am back to the cars I always thought were out of my reach.

Do I care if some yuppie buys an A and has a shop build it for him with every bling part on it? nope not one bit because that is the car they wanted and they had the money to cut the checks. My personal taste is a vehicle that is all about business and understated to a degree. I have caught hell for my love of the "sleeper" and I also saw the bullshit that goes on within these various communities.

One thing I have noticed even in this community (just an observation) but it seems as though the traditional rodders are just as harsh on others within their own genre as any other group out there. You seperate them into greasers, rodders and gold chainers (and any number of sub groups) then you trash these individual groups all while saying you enjoy it as a family sport (or some such bs).

Keep it up guys you set a great example for the younger ones coming up and into this sport, you scare off those who know less than you do and you rip hard on their selections they made that in some cases were made not knowing there were other options. This is the kind of BS that drives the tuner crowd.

Not saying it is going to be the death of rodding at all, but it is an observation I have made and it has happened in every facet of every community I have been around...just seems childish.

 

I've been making a living in the aftermarket accessory business for almost 50 years. At the present time, my garage has a 46 Pontiac woody, Zipper Lakester with a banger, '29 stretched CCPU with a banger, 04 Jeep Unlimited and a mildly customized '03 Navigator.

I enjoy off-roading as much as a vacation cruise with other rodder couples. Woody people are great.

It doesn't matter what the trends are, it's the people you meet through your interest in various automotive activities.

That never changes!

 

What scares me on this topics, is I hope and pray that SEMA will keep on top of things and make this all possible for us for years to come....and keep the gov't from shutting us down. If you take a look everything from emissions to safety has VASTLY improved from the 60's, 70's and 80's...and really...hot rods havent in those areas...yet the gov't enforces auto makers to make these things standard equipment, and thanks to SEMA the feds have not gotten to us yet, but if and when they do...there will not be to many folks who can afford to build or own a "street legal" car.

Hope you catch my drift...just saying the thought that its only a matter of time before we, meaning hot rodders and builders of such vehicles, are required to meet safety and emission standards, scares me.

 

You are right about our biggest fear being the government.

In that regard I think E85 will be the salvation of our hobby regarding emissions and still allow high performance.

On safety - we can only hope the Jay Leno types will help us cause of the vintage exemptions and the fact that the hobby has become far more oriented to visuals than performance.

 

Air shocks, tunnel rams, and Cragar mags...it's a comin' down the mountain, and a shagged Van is right behind it.... it all goes round and round.

 

I second this!

 

Where was tradition in the 70's and 80's on into the 90's? There was alot of individuals keeping this style of Hot Rodding alive but it was underground and now look mainstream, here we are and do not ever look back or worry what is to come in negative because the positive is definately overwhelming.

 

Quickly, off the top of my head, Bill Burnham, and Baskerville stayed with it despite being directly involved with the pulse of the times. I just read an article from Burnham a while back, written in the 80's that is virtually timeless: He was touting tradition, and lamenting trends. The very same sentiments have been hashed out on this board and in garages time and again. There will always be those who just do, and those that come and go.

While I truly love the simplicity and soul of a late 40's styled car, to do one right takes a restorer's mentality and some deep pockets. Is it feasible to build the Isky T, or the Spencer car on a budget? No. That has a lot with the ebb and flow of the cycles.

Right now, 60's and 70's cars are dirt cheap, parts are still floating around,and a vast majority of folks like myself can feel a connection to the era...more so than I can the 40's and 50's. It seems only natural for time to progress and the styles to follow suit in a 30-40 year wave. Like I said, the era of the air shock is acomin'. Start collecting those anodized Mr. Gasket parts and NOS 15" Boyd wheels now for what follows that. hahaha.

Tradition will never die. That's why it's called "tradition."