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Technical I need help planning my brake system

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Busmania, Apr 29, 2023.

  1. Any trouble with that master craft set’s pump. My unit quit pumping, it’s really nice, does some neat stuff, usually need both hands and 1 extra finger though, I need to get it fixed.
     
    ekimneirbo likes this.
  2. Happydaze
    Joined: Aug 21, 2009
    Posts: 1,931

    Happydaze
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    @31Vicky with a hemi, no problems with mine after about 15 years of occasional use. I got myself a $20 ebay wire crimper, great for battery cables, but have made a mental note to try repurposing the crimper pump to the Mastercool flare should the unthinkable happen! They're basically identical in the pumping department, how couldn't they be?

    Chris

    Chris
     
  3. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,263

    ekimneirbo

    Not so far.
     
  4. Mike Colemire
    Joined: May 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,431

    Mike Colemire
    Member

    I've had those good old steel lines rust out in less than a year around here. These new steel lines are garbage now, I call it China steel. I use the Nicole copper line on everything never comes back which makes happy customers.
     
    ekimneirbo likes this.
  5. verno30
    Joined: Aug 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,148

    verno30
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    I bought the Eastwood version of the Straightener and the Flare Tool back in 2018 or 2019. Absolutely love them. They were a game changer to say the least. Couldn't be happier.
     
  6. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 9,186

    manyolcars

    Brake problems are so common that we need a brakes sub-forum
     
    72yenkonova, 1971BB427 and scotty t like this.
  7. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,885

    BJR
    Member

    After 4 pages you should have your brakes planned out by now. :D
     
    scotty t and Tman like this.
  8. Busmania
    Joined: Oct 16, 2022
    Posts: 135

    Busmania
    Member
    from Denver

    Yep. Brakes are planned out. Got parts coming. It all makes sense now. I’ve been practicing flaring and bending with my copper tubing while I wait for the Nicopp brake lines and other parts.
     
    ekimneirbo likes this.
  9. ekimneirbo
    Joined: Apr 29, 2017
    Posts: 4,263

    ekimneirbo

    I know its often hard to justify buying some of these tools and ponying up the money..........but like you, I couldn't be happier with the results. With the different flare types there is a little learning curve, but there is also a since of pride in having really good results. To me, I don't care if anyone else ever sees them, I just know they are done right...........however, poorly done work always seems to stand out somewhere when done.:)
     
  10. That master has holes on both sides to make it more universal. Some cars have the brake lines on the inside and some do not. Plug your brake lines in where they work best and plug the others.

    The splitter is called a T. Too simple right?

    The residual valves go to the drum brakes. Usually the proportioning valve also goes to the rear brakes. The lower to ground and the less California Rake that you have the least need for proportioning. Perhaps better said the least front to rear brake bias is needed.

    When you get it installed fine a straight stretch of road that is pretty much deserted, get her tolling good and lock it up. Keep playing with the proportioning with the proportioning valve until you get the desired feel. I like my rears to just almost lock up but some guys like them to lock up for example.
     
  11. -Brent-
    Joined: Nov 20, 2006
    Posts: 7,360

    -Brent-
    Member

    There's some great info here.

    Can I jump in for some advice?

    My coupe has 40s Ford juice brakes in the front, 57-60 Pontiac drums in the rear with a 60-62 Chevy truck master cylinder.

    The Chevy ran 1/4" lines, I believe. That's what I was planning.

    However, I haven't given it all much thought or planned it other than looking what the C10s ran.

    What say you all?
     
  12. Mike Colemire
    Joined: May 18, 2013
    Posts: 1,431

    Mike Colemire
    Member

    I like the bubble flares, 1 step and your done but the older stuff you use the double flares, wish I had one of the hyd flaring tools, I just have an old snap on deal.
     
  13. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,752

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    Practicing on copper tubing may be a waste of time. Steel is going to flare a lot different than copper did.
     
    31Vicky with a hemi likes this.
  14. The simplicity of bubble flair fitting seat is great.
     
  15. The factory engineers did it a certain way for their specific reasons. I’d say generally you can’t go wrong by putting back what they did.
    There could be some sound design requirements and engineering behind it.
    It could’ve been the 1/4” line mass production was better, survival rate of forming was higher, making 1/4” fittings was easier, it could be the required line pressures. 1/4 lines are more robust and easier to install ( by one guy on a moving line on a bare chassis) being more robust means they probably stored, shipped and unpacked better.
     
    -Brent- likes this.
  16. Busmania
    Joined: Oct 16, 2022
    Posts: 135

    Busmania
    Member
    from Denver

    I’ve also been practicing on some Nicopp line I bought while I wait for the rest of it to come.
     
  17. Busmania
    Joined: Oct 16, 2022
    Posts: 135

    Busmania
    Member
    from Denver

    Update and one more question.

    I have the rear all plumbed but I’m stumped on the front. Well, not stumped except for I really want to use a stock style Tee fitting on the front with a banjo bolt directly into the left front soft line (like stock). However, I can’t find this Tee fitting with a 3/16 tube size (I can find 1/4”
    Tube size). The photo below shows a generic Tee fitting I have along side the stock fitting with banjo bolt. I Don t like the generic because then I have to run a hard line from the soft line to the Tee fitting and it just doesn’t seem very clean and it’s one more line that I feel is unnecessary. A banjo Tee fitting would be so much better.

    Does anyone know where I can find a banjo fitting like this that works with the 3/16 line? Part number?

    BD594DF9-C4DF-4149-8BD6-42A3556FCBD5.jpeg
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2023
  18. alchemy
    Joined: Sep 27, 2002
    Posts: 20,502

    alchemy
    Member

    Reinventing the wheel is always a good idea.
     
  19. 57tailgater
    Joined: Nov 22, 2008
    Posts: 845

    57tailgater
    Member
    from Georgia

  20. 57tailgater
    Joined: Nov 22, 2008
    Posts: 845

    57tailgater
    Member
    from Georgia

    The problem you are going to have with trying to mate a banjo style fitting to the end of that brake hose is the brake hose end surface isn't machined for it and would be prone to leakage. The inverted flare seat is the sealing surface that was machined for sealing. Plus even if you found a banjo bolt with the right threads the bolt may bottom out before holding the fitting to seal up. You could always soften the edges of the "generic" tee to make it look less blockish. And yes, this would require an extra line.
     
  21. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,217

    nobby
    Member

    what just got me was the older style sykes pickavant non turret type flarer
    and the modern turret type
    and if you do get the 3/16 line for 3/8
    [​IMG]
    the later style is two on a spinning turret

    rather than one piece that you flip
    if you did just go and buy the older style, its impossible to find new dies.........


    is the usa sae double flare 45 dgrees as stated above.
    does the SAE and 45 degrees indicate american brake fittings?
    so - is the one stage 'convex' sae OP1 operation 1
    for if you like post 1978 metric chevy?
    so If I want to use a 24mm metric chevrolet aluminium brake master
    i simply need to go from m11 master ports to to the combination valve
    sae double flare inch with 3/16 brake line.
     
  22. nobby
    Joined: Jan 8, 2006
    Posts: 1,217

    nobby
    Member

    oh and
    what are the part numbers for the different bore rear wheel cylinders that FIT 10'' ford brakes - how many different sized bores will actually fit them
    or what part number do i need on my rear wheel cylinders running
    78 metric stock front calipers, a combo valve, 24/5mm brake master and 10 by 2'' shoes
     
  23. See if Edelmann 121034 tube nuts will work for you, 3/16" tube x 1/4" flare nut.
     
  24. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,752

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

  25. First page, gimpy’s post
     
  26. Here ^^^^^^^^^
     
  27. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,314

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  28. gimpyshotrods
    Joined: May 20, 2009
    Posts: 23,314

    gimpyshotrods
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    The technology for making brake tubing was not good enough to make 3/16" tubing.

    1/4" tubing was never needed, for pressure or flow.

    It was just easier to make. Plus, a whole lot of cars had 1/4" fuel lines, too.
     
  29. 57tailgater
    Joined: Nov 22, 2008
    Posts: 845

    57tailgater
    Member
    from Georgia

    For the fitting on the master cylinder you may be able to find someone on the 67-72 Chevy Truck forum who is getting rid of their original stuff.
     
  30. BJR
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 9,885

    BJR
    Member

    Have you got enough help planning yet?
     

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